[TowerTalk] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 108, Issue 72
k2wd
k2wd at comcast.net
Wed Dec 21 06:43:13 PST 2011
..
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-request at contesting.com
Sender: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 06:34:31
To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
Reply-To: towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 108, Issue 72
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection? (Jim W7RY)
2. Re: SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection? (Tony)
3. Re: SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection? (Tony)
4. Re: SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection? (Tony)
5. Re: SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection? (Jorge Diez CX6VM)
6. Re: SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection?
(Joseph or Ruth Patrick)
7. Re: SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection? (Chuck)
8. Re: SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection? (Bert Almemo)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 22:11:53 -0800
From: "Jim W7RY" <jimw7ry at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection?
To: "Tony" <dxdx at optonline.net>, <towertalk at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <2AE0C3F9FFFB46869B5FFD525C3EC347 at Laptop>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Are you using the same wattmeter? Or are you using the meter in each radio?
73
Jim W7RY
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Tony" <dxdx at optonline.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 9:12 PM
To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection?
> All,
>
> I bypassed the lghtning protection and the SWR problem is still there. I
> installed a new coax connector on the shack side of the coax as well.
>
> I still have to check the balun, balun leads and the coax-to-balun
> connector. There's nothing else inline. The coax (Bury Flex) and balun
> (3KW M2) were installed a few years ago.
>
> I just checked the system again with two different 100 watt rigs and
> found that:
>
> - I can transmit for 2 or 3 minutes from a cold start before the SWR
> starts to rise
> - the SRW returns to normal 30 seconds after I stop transmitting
> - it takes a lot less time for the SWR to rise after the 30 second rest
> period
>
> I did replace the ground wires with copper strap a few months ago, but I
> haven't made any other changes to the tower and antenna system.
>
> Why do these things always happen during the winter ; )
>
> Tony, K2MO
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 04:29:28 -0500
From: Tony <dxdx at optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection?
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Message-ID: <4EF1A6F8.1070803 at optonline.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 12/21/2011 1:11 AM, Jim W7RY wrote:
> What kind of antenna is this Tony? 73 Jim W7RY
Hi Jim,
It's an M2 5 element mono band Yagi.
Tony, K2MO
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Tony"<dxdx at optonline.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 9:12 PM
> To:<towertalk at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection?
>
>> All,
>>
>> I bypassed the lghtning protection and the SWR problem is still there. I
>> installed a new coax connector on the shack side of the coax as well.
>>
>> I still have to check the balun, balun leads and the coax-to-balun
>> connector. There's nothing else inline. The coax (Bury Flex) and balun
>> (3KW M2) were installed a few years ago.
>>
>> I just checked the system again with two different 100 watt rigs and
>> found that:
>>
>> - I can transmit for 2 or 3 minutes from a cold start before the SWR
>> starts to rise
>> - the SRW returns to normal 30 seconds after I stop transmitting
>> - it takes a lot less time for the SWR to rise after the 30 second rest
>> period
>>
>> I did replace the ground wires with copper strap a few months ago, but I
>> haven't made any other changes to the tower and antenna system.
>>
>> Why do these things always happen during the winter ; )
>>
>> Tony, K2MO
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 04:35:13 -0500
From: Tony <dxdx at optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection?
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Message-ID: <4EF1A851.7070507 at optonline.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 12/21/2011 1:11 AM, Jim W7RY wrote:
> Are you using the same wattmeter? Or are you using the meter in each
> radio?
> 73 Jim W7RY
Jim,
I'm using and external SWR meter and can see the power cut back on 3
different rigs as the SWR climbs. Reflected power jumps way up.
Tony
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Tony" <dxdx at optonline.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 9:12 PM
> To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection?
>
>> All,
>>
>> I bypassed the lghtning protection and the SWR problem is still
>> there. I installed a new coax connector on the shack side of the coax
>> as well.
>>
>> I still have to check the balun, balun leads and the coax-to-balun
>> connector. There's nothing else inline. The coax (Bury Flex) and
>> balun (3KW M2) were installed a few years ago.
>>
>> I just checked the system again with two different 100 watt rigs and
>> found that:
>>
>> - I can transmit for 2 or 3 minutes from a cold start before the SWR
>> starts to rise
>> - the SRW returns to normal 30 seconds after I stop transmitting
>> - it takes a lot less time for the SWR to rise after the 30 second
>> rest period
>>
>> I did replace the ground wires with copper strap a few months ago,
>> but I haven't made any other changes to the tower and antenna system.
>>
>> Why do these things always happen during the winter ; )
>>
>> Tony, K2MO
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 04:41:15 -0500
From: Tony <dxdx at optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection?
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Message-ID: <4EF1A9BB.9020004 at optonline.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 12/20/2011 10:22 PM, Gene Fuller wrote:
> Hi Tony - Can you find out what's in the balun? Possibly a capacitor that is changing value as it heats up. Gene / W2LU
Hi Gene - it's an M2 3KW 1:1 balun. I'll give them a call tomorrow.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Tony
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tony"<dxdx at optonline.net>
> To:<towertalk at contesting.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 7:41 PM
> Subject: [TowerTalk] SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection?
>
>
>> All,
>>
>> The SWR on my 5 element mono band Yagi rises after I key down for a few
>> minutes. The 2:1 SWR bandwidth behaves normally until the problem
>> occurs. The SWR goes to normal after waiting a few minutes, but then the
>> problem starts again after I key down for a while.
>>
>> The only things inline are the lightning protection (polyphaser) and the
>> balun which is mounted at the antenna. The antenna is made by M2 and it
>> uses an M2 balun.
>>
>> I'm going to bypass the lightning protection tomorrow as a process of
>> elimination, but I was wondering if the problem is more likely to be
>> caused by the balun?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Tony
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 09:15:01 -0200
From: "Jorge Diez CX6VM" <cx6vm.jorge at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection?
To: "'Tony'" <dxdx at optonline.net>, <towertalk at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <4ef1bfb8.051a640a.5182.ffff876e at mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Tony,
I have this M2 20M5 antenna. Before cqww ssb I installed high power band
pass filters for a Multi Single and experimented problems in the SWR of this
antenna.
FREQ. WITHOUT FILTER WITH FILTER
14025 1.37 1.80
14300 1.46 2.51
Filters provider told me to do some test, and seems SWR varying if I add
some lengths of coax (jumpers) inside the shack. So seems the balun is bad?
Same as you, using balun provided with this antenna from M2.
73,
Jorge
CX6VM
-----Mensaje original-----
De: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] En nombre de Tony
Enviado el: mi?rcoles, 21 de diciembre de 2011 07:41 a.m.
Para: towertalk at contesting.com
Asunto: Re: [TowerTalk] SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection?
On 12/20/2011 10:22 PM, Gene Fuller wrote:
> Hi Tony - Can you find out what's in the balun? Possibly a capacitor that
is changing value as it heats up. Gene / W2LU
Hi Gene - it's an M2 3KW 1:1 balun. I'll give them a call tomorrow.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Tony
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tony"<dxdx at optonline.net>
> To:<towertalk at contesting.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 7:41 PM
> Subject: [TowerTalk] SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection?
>
>
>> All,
>>
>> The SWR on my 5 element mono band Yagi rises after I key down for a few
>> minutes. The 2:1 SWR bandwidth behaves normally until the problem
>> occurs. The SWR goes to normal after waiting a few minutes, but then the
>> problem starts again after I key down for a while.
>>
>> The only things inline are the lightning protection (polyphaser) and the
>> balun which is mounted at the antenna. The antenna is made by M2 and it
>> uses an M2 balun.
>>
>> I'm going to bypass the lightning protection tomorrow as a process of
>> elimination, but I was wondering if the problem is more likely to be
>> caused by the balun?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Tony
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk at contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 05:48:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Joseph or Ruth Patrick <hdmc38 at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection?
To: Tony <dxdx at optonline.net>
Cc: towertalk at contesting.com
Message-ID:
<1324475310.35388.YahooMailRC at web180606.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Good Morning Tony
?It seems as if?you have eliminated the lightning protection. I would ask if you
can easily reach the balun? You may have to. Put a known good 100 watt dummy
load at the connection from the coax to the balun. If you come up good here
chances are it's?the balun or further down the line. If you still get high swr
with this check then it's the coax or connections. I had a 75' run of coax go
bad and this was the best way I know of to check it. Others may have better
suggestions. Good Luck let us know how you make out. Merry Christmas to all.
?73 DE K4XZ Joe Patrick
God Made Man
Sam Colt Made Them Equal
________________________________
All,
I bypassed the lghtning protection and the SWR problem is still there. I
installed a new coax connector on the shack side of the coax as well.
I still have to check the balun, balun leads and the coax-to-balun
connector. There's nothing else inline. The coax (Bury Flex) and balun
(3KW M2) were installed a few years ago.
I just checked the system again with two different 100 watt rigs and
found that:
- I can transmit for 2 or 3 minutes from a cold start before the SWR
starts to rise
- the SRW returns to normal 30 seconds after I stop transmitting
- it takes a lot less time for the SWR to rise after the 30 second rest
period
I did replace the ground wires with copper strap a few months ago, but I
haven't made any other changes to the tower and antenna system.
Why do these things always happen during the winter ;? )
Tony, K2MO
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk at contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 08:10:32 -0600
From: "Chuck" <w5pr at swbell.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection?
To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <A50E7988CDA849A88CC61B8FFE941B38 at LOGANHOMEPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
If you have moisture in the coax, it can act like this. There will be a
high resistance path to ground which will heat up on transmit and reduce in
resistance, causing the SWR to rise. Test the coax with a digital meter and
you will probably find a meg-ohm or two from the center conductor to ground.
(Disconnect the antenna unless it is a gamma match or other, non-shorted at
DC feed and the balun, depending upon the type of balun.) If so, replace
the coax. Good luck!
Chuck W5PR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph or Ruth Patrick" <hdmc38 at bellsouth.net>
To: "Tony" <dxdx at optonline.net>
Cc: <towertalk at contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection?
Good Morning Tony
It seems as if you have eliminated the lightning protection. I would ask if
you
can easily reach the balun? You may have to. Put a known good 100 watt dummy
load at the connection from the coax to the balun. If you come up good here
chances are it's the balun or further down the line. If you still get high
swr
with this check then it's the coax or connections. I had a 75' run of coax
go
bad and this was the best way I know of to check it. Others may have better
suggestions. Good Luck let us know how you make out. Merry Christmas to all.
73 DE K4XZ Joe Patrick
God Made Man
Sam Colt Made Them Equal
________________________________
All,
I bypassed the lghtning protection and the SWR problem is still there. I
installed a new coax connector on the shack side of the coax as well.
I still have to check the balun, balun leads and the coax-to-balun
connector. There's nothing else inline. The coax (Bury Flex) and balun
(3KW M2) were installed a few years ago.
I just checked the system again with two different 100 watt rigs and
found that:
- I can transmit for 2 or 3 minutes from a cold start before the SWR
starts to rise
- the SRW returns to normal 30 seconds after I stop transmitting
- it takes a lot less time for the SWR to rise after the 30 second rest
period
I did replace the ground wires with copper strap a few months ago, but I
haven't made any other changes to the tower and antenna system.
Why do these things always happen during the winter ; )
Tony, K2MO
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk at contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk at contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 09:34:23 -0500
From: Bert Almemo <balmemo at sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection?
To: "'Chuck'" <w5pr at swbell.net>, <towertalk at contesting.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP25C050ADA56D3EC9F43F01D4A50 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
One of the best ways to check if you have a bad coax is to terminate the
coax with a dummy load that gives you for instance 3:1 in SWR, i.e. 150
ohms.
If you have a better SWR, e.g. 2:1 you know you have a bad/lossy coax.
Terminating the coax with a 50 ohm dummy load doesn't give you any info
about the coax as the SWR can't get any better than 1:1. Just my 2 cents.
73 Bert, VE3NR
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 9:11 AM
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection?
If you have moisture in the coax, it can act like this. There will be a
high resistance path to ground which will heat up on transmit and reduce in
resistance, causing the SWR to rise. Test the coax with a digital meter and
you will probably find a meg-ohm or two from the center conductor to ground.
(Disconnect the antenna unless it is a gamma match or other, non-shorted at
DC feed and the balun, depending upon the type of balun.) If so, replace
the coax. Good luck!
Chuck W5PR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph or Ruth Patrick" <hdmc38 at bellsouth.net>
To: "Tony" <dxdx at optonline.net>
Cc: <towertalk at contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] SWR Problem Balun or lightning protection?
Good Morning Tony
It seems as if you have eliminated the lightning protection. I would ask if
you
can easily reach the balun? You may have to. Put a known good 100 watt dummy
load at the connection from the coax to the balun. If you come up good here
chances are it's the balun or further down the line. If you still get high
swr
with this check then it's the coax or connections. I had a 75' run of coax
go
bad and this was the best way I know of to check it. Others may have better
suggestions. Good Luck let us know how you make out. Merry Christmas to all.
73 DE K4XZ Joe Patrick
God Made Man
Sam Colt Made Them Equal
________________________________
All,
I bypassed the lghtning protection and the SWR problem is still there. I
installed a new coax connector on the shack side of the coax as well.
I still have to check the balun, balun leads and the coax-to-balun
connector. There's nothing else inline. The coax (Bury Flex) and balun
(3KW M2) were installed a few years ago.
I just checked the system again with two different 100 watt rigs and
found that:
- I can transmit for 2 or 3 minutes from a cold start before the SWR
starts to rise
- the SRW returns to normal 30 seconds after I stop transmitting
- it takes a lot less time for the SWR to rise after the 30 second rest
period
I did replace the ground wires with copper strap a few months ago, but I
haven't made any other changes to the tower and antenna system.
Why do these things always happen during the winter ; )
Tony, K2MO
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk at contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk at contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk at contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk at contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 108, Issue 72
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