[TowerTalk] Underground conduit question

Wed Feb 9 08:26:44 PST 2011

For whatever it's worth, a contrarian view.  When we moved here 15 years 
ago, I sited my tower about 190 feet from the house, in the woods.  The 
only problem was getting the cables across about 70 feet of side yard to 
the woods.  I put in 2 runs of ~ 2 1/2 inch plastic utility conduit - 
the orange stuff.  Because of rock ledges, I would up laying it less 
than a foot below ground surface.

I have had zero trouble with it.  In that time I have moved multiple 
cables into and out of the conduit, including two different runs of 
hardline, miscellaneous control cables, etc.  The cables have always 
come out of the conduit fairly clean and dry.  Most of that I attribute 
to a roughly 1:20 slope in the conduit from the house end to the woods 
end.  I'm sure that there is water in the conduit from time to time, but 
it appears to flow out before any problems arise.

73, Pete N4ZR

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On 2/9/2011 8:31 AM, Larry stowell wrote:
>
>
> I don't care how you seal the joints or rain proof the ends. You are going to get condensation! The
> only way is to seal the ends and pressurize it( like the telephone companies do). If you are
> fortunate to have very good drainage soil lay the pipe on landscape cloth to keep out the dirt. Here
> in NC with the red clay it is impracticable to drain. I gave up and built a pergola and ran all my
> cables in the top of that.
>
> 73 Larry K1ZW
> Durham, NC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com [mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Diane
> and Edward Swynar
> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 8:10 AM
> To: towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Underground conduit question
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I used standard-issue-variety black pvc pipe that allowed me to bury some 15' - 20' of feedline&
> rotator cable from the base of my tower, to the shack window in the basement...
>
> I specifically did NOT use the pipe with the leaching holes in it---and in order to keep water from
> gaining entry at either end, I used elbow joints there, such that the cables are actually facing the
> ground when they enter&  exit the pipline "tunnel."
>
> After some 3 years, I can honestly say, "So far, so good." And I no longer have to worry about
> nicked lines when I cut the grass in the area come summer...
>
> ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ
>
>
> ******************************************
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Al Kozakiewicz"<akozak at hourglass.com>
> To:<towertalk at contesting.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 8:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Underground conduit question
>
>
>> I've seen countless posts in various forums regarding the perforation of
> perfectly watertight pipe to aid "drainage".  Do people get that much
> airflow through their buried and sealed pipe that condensation is a major
> problem?
>> I can tell you that where I live in upstate NY, if you bury perforated
> pipe below the frost line or, for that matter, more than a couple of feet
> deep, it will fill with water and stay that way forever.  I'm no expert, but
> I kinda think that's worse than some condensation!
>> Al
>> AB2ZY
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com
> [mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Daryll Webb
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 1:27 PM
>> To: towertalk at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Underground conduit question
>>
>> Howdy   I like this group!  Good stuff all around.
>> Hr is what I plan to do with my install.
>> As the feed line will be direct bury, not submersible! I plan to use the
> plastic pipe that is used for leach beads, it has drain holes in it.
>> That way if any water gets into it I think it will drain as it is suppose
> to. A thin layer of sand or pea gravel should make it work.
>> It will only need to be 12" deep or less jest to keep it from coming up
> after a few years.
>> If I need to change cable I hope to hook the new one to the old one and
> pull it in as the old is pulled out.
>> In theory it should work. Wish me luck  Daryll kg9nd
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Peter Dougherty<w2irt at verizon.net>
>> To: towertalk at contesting.com
>> Sent: Tue, February 8, 2011 12:10:14 PM
>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Underground conduit question
>>
>> On 2/7/2011 1:55 PM, Peter Dougherty wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> Several years ago I had a run of 4" solid white PVC tubing run on a
>> downward
>>
>> Very important...How long is this run and how deep.
>> It's roughly 41 or 42' long, buried about 18" down at the deep end and 12"
>> on the shallow end. It was installed when an electrician put in a 120 VAC
> outlet for our nearby pond. These three pictures can describe it better than
> my words can:
>> http://s291.photobucket.com/albums/ll290/W2IRT/Towers%20and%20Antennas/
>>
>> Snow won't hurt, it's just a nuisance.
>>
>>>> IF the conduit maintains a grade all the way it won't fill up with
>>>> water and freeze. This part I'm afraid to ask. What did you use to
>>>> block the end
>> in the
>>>> yard to prevent "critters" from turning it into a ready made home?
>> I used 1/2" wire-mesh (hardware cloth) fastened by a hose clamp. The
> cables run through the squares.
>>> After the lines emerge from the conduit they just run over top of the
>> ground
>>> to their respective antennae. After a coax failure to my loop, I tried
>>> pushing a fish-tape through the conduit in hopes of running a new
>>> length
>> of
>>> cable but it became obvious that the inside of this conduit had gotten
>>> ice or muck inside, so I need to wait until spring to try and remedy
> things.
>>>> If there are more than a few cables in the conduit and/or it's a long
>>>> run it'll be very difficult to push a fish tape through it once it
>>>> has cables in place.
>> If you look at the pictures referenced above, I have a number of cables
> that exit the house and then go up to the vertical section just a few feet
> away (which now has a 180-degree cap on it) and to an antenna switch box
> mounted on the side of the tower. One line (the 160 antenna) comes back down
> that riser and along the full length of the conduit. I have 3 or 4 other
> cables that run the full length of that conduit (the failed K9AY coax, the
> control line and a run of RG-6 for a noise sense antenna, which has just now
> been repurposed as the K9AY coax).
>>
>>> This now leads to a few much broader questions.
>>> 1) Can I do anything to improve the drainage of the existing 4"
>>> conduit (remember, it's already on a downward angle)? Digging up the
>>> back yard is NOT an option.
>> How deep is it. With cables in the answer is probably not. If the conduit
> is "always" on a grade with no low spots it should not need any more
> drainage.
>> I'm *pretty sure* it's on a constant albeit shallow angle down away from
> the house.
>>>> You could build a box for the cables to exit into at the end of the
>>>> conduit.  Put some plastic mesh in it along with a few mothballs to
>>>> discourage critters.
>> I think this is the way I'll go, similar to what our sprinkler-system
> installers did for their junction boxes and valves, etc.
>>> 2) The coax/control-cables lying on the ground will need to be buried.
>> Do you mean the ones coming out of the current conduit?
>>
>> Yes, the lines to the K9AY loop specifically, although I'd like to bury
> the 160 TX antenna feedline as well. It, however, traverses a lot of very
> inaccessible terrain (behind rocks, beside an embankment, through a narrow
> gap between the garage and a concrete fixture, etc, making that job far more
> difficult. That ground rises and falls considerably, too.
>>>> Have you considered "direct bury" cables?  Or something rugged like
>>>> Davis BuryFlex(TM) and just leave it on the surface or buried shallow?
>> I guess this is the way to go for the 160 TX, and maybe for the K9AY. I'm
> using direct-bury sprinkler control cable for the K9AY directionality
> control and remote power so no worries there. I'm not really a fan of
> direct-bury, though, since if there is a failure I'd rather just pull a new
> run in minutes rather than either a) dig out the old one or b) dig a new
> trench for the new one. I'm definitely interested in a conduit solution.
>> [pjd] -pjd
>>
>>
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