[TowerTalk] static noise
Bill Cotter
n4lg at qx.net
Fri Nov 25 21:28:43 PST 2011
An excellent tool for finding sources of breakdowns in AC line
components is an ultrasonic receiver. These devices have a pick
transducer and the signal is mixed with an oscillator to bring the
noise into the hearing range. I have seen commercial units for very
low prices, and I have experience with homebrew receivers.
I used this technique (along with the sledge hammer) on many
occasions to isolate hardware, lightning arrestors, insulators and
splices that are arcing at very low level. They ALL make ultrasonic
noise when frying.
73 Bill N4LG
At 02:52 PM 11/24/2011, Cal Zethmayr wrote:
>My most recent experience with static noise was from sloppy
>installation work done by a contract company putting up new fibre
>for the the local cable company. The crews just wrapped their
>copper ground wires around their ground cable and also just
>wrapped it around the power company ground lines going down each
>pole to the ground stakes! They DID NOT use any ground wire clamps!
>
>The noise only was present late at night and ended once the heat
>of the morning sun had dried the moisture. It was terrible when I
>wanted to check in to our North Florida 80 SSB net in the mornings.
>
>I used a handheld AM SW receiver to find the area (about 2 blocks
>from my qth). And then used our radio station Field Intensity
>Meter as I walked from pole to pole.
>
>Also used a method a Chief Engineer from a new transmitter install
>I was doing years ago...(We did not have a FIM..since we were none
>directional and did not need to do weekly measurements) He used
>a A BIG SLEDGE HAMMER.. slam it up against the bottom of the
>pole... and if the static sound you are hearing on the AM or HF
>frequencies changes or warbles from the vibrations you have found
>the source(s).
>
>Now in my case last year I was able to get one of the field
>engineers for the local Rural Coop that serves my area to come out
>early one morning while the noise was loud. He had a very
>sophisticated measuring unit with a hi gain yagi. He confirmed
>the same areas where I had found the noise to be loudest. And he
>saw the signal levels change as I did the SLEDGE HAMMER test!
>
>He had a crew come out with a bucket truck. And as they checked
>the insulators, cables and grounds for about a dozen poles in a
>half mile stretch... they found the ground wires that were just
>wrapped and not clamped. It was obvious that the contractor crew
>for the cable company had done the sloppy work.
>
>Over a period of a couple of months their crews found many more
>instances of the same sloppy work in this area of the county...
>they documented all of it and convinced the cable company to pay
>the Coop for all the extra work they had to do.
>
>And of course..once they finished working on the section of power
>line and cable line grounds in my area... the static went away.
>
>Most recently... I began hearing a static on HF that would go thru
>a cycle several times per hour. I tracked that down to one of the
>street lights in my neighborhood that would come on... stay one
>for about 10 to 15 minutes...then flicker out and after a few
>minutes restart... and each time it started up... the noise was
>30 over 9....
>
>Again my friends at Chelco replaced that lite the day after I told
>them about it.
>
>If you don't know anyone at your local power company... start by
>talking to a local branch manager or their information person..
>tell them you don't really want to write letters to the editors of
>the newspapers or call the local call-in radio shows... just want
>them to help get rid of the interference that is disrupting your
>ability to provide emergency communications. These folks are very
>sensitive to media attention. I just happen to be the GSM of a
>local 100kw FM and 5KW AM.. and the local coop is one of my
>advertising accounts and the marketing/information person is a
>long time friend.. so that probably helped get their help much
>sooner.
>
>But they were glad to find the source of the intermittent static
>and to get it fixed.
>
>Cal Z
>W4GMH
>
>
>
>
>---- towertalk-request at contesting.com wrote:
>
>=============
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>
>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Anemometer system for tower, with web posting
> (Kenneth Goodwin)
> 2. Re: Anemometer system for tower, with web posting (Eric -
> VE3GSI)
> 3. Static source ? (Chris Merchant KA1LMR)
> 4. Re: Static source ? (TexasRF at aol.com)
> 5. Re: Static source ? (Ron W8RJL)
> 6. Re: Static source ? (K8RI)
> 7. Re: Static source ? (Mike Ryan)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:01:30 -0600
>From: "Kenneth Goodwin" <krgoodwin at comcast.net>
>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Anemometer system for tower, with web posting
>To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
>Message-ID: <001101ccaa23$135756d0$3a060470$@net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>If spending money is in the solution space, the Davis
>WeatherLinkIP is the
>slick solution. Check out mine at
>http://www.weatherlink.com/user/krgoodwin
>which is mounted about 60 feet up the 80 foot tower. I believe it
>collects
>data every 10 seconds and posts to the Davis web site about once a
>minute.
>It captures the highest wind gust for transmission. It requires
>no Internet
>authoring which is a downside since the XYL would like to have a
>customized
>background display for the hosted data.
>
>
>
>It is a couple of clicks to set up dumping the data to the findu
>service.
>Mine is at http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/wxpage.cgi?call=k5rg-3
>
>
>
>The Vantage Pro2 is wireless, no RFI into my station although my
>KW will
>occasionally a few parameters on the Vantage Pro2 display. I have
>not seen
>it nail any of the Internet data since I use a Weather Envoy (no
>display) to
>interface between my Internet Router and the Davis data. One can
>download
>the data from the Weather Envoy to one's computer for detailed
>analysis.
>The Davis WeatherLink software has numerous ways of displaying and
>graphing
>the data with just about any way it you want it displayed/graphed.
>Obviously the router and the Internet service must be on 24/7 if
>you want to
>see all of the data.
>
>
>
>The Davis Internet service allows anybody to investigate all
>WeatherLinkIP
>stations that are hosting data so you can easily get a big picture
>of the
>weather from any nearby WeatherLinkIP stations.
>
>
>
>The Davis people provide excellent support and they are on my
>A-List. Only
>problem is that the good stuff is not cheap. Ken K5RG
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 16:32:08 -0500
>From: Eric - VE3GSI <ve3gsi at sympatico.ca>
>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Anemometer system for tower, with web posting
>To: "wyc" <wycpublic at gmail.com>, <towertalk at contesting.com>
>Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP1572CD495591FADD782ACBECC90 at phx.gbl>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
> reply-type=original
>
>Bill,
>I have a Davis Vantage Pro II (wired) and use third-party software
>called
>'Weather Display':
>
>http://www.weather-display.com/index.php
>
>to post my data to the web at:
>
>http://www3.sympatico.ca/reid.reid
>
>The software does can have a steep learning curve for some, but
>does comes
>with templates and custom options that allow just about any data
>anyone may
>wish to monitor in almost all time frames, both historical and
>real time. It
>can even email you critical data to your inbox.
>
>Eric - VE3GSI
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "wyc"
>Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 1:36 PM
>Subject: [TowerTalk] Anemometer system for tower, with web posting
>
>
>I?m looking for anemometer system that I can tower-mount at a
>remote QTH,
>that will post current and peak wind gust data (e.g., for last 24
>hours) in some
>web-accessible form - preferably without a lot (or any) web page
>authoring
>by me.
>
>I considered Weatherlink IP software (compatible with various
>Davis weather
>stations). However, it reportedly doesn?t do peak reading, and it
>appears
>to post on a sporadic, infrequent, schedule. (Per
>http://www.amazon.com/review/R3HWWJWH9ACC4X/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R3HWWJWH9ACC4X).
>
>Does anyone have such a system installed?
>
>tnx,
>/Bill, K2PO
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 18:15:27 -0800 (PST)
>From: Chris Merchant KA1LMR <ka1lmr at yahoo.com>
>Subject: [TowerTalk] Static source ?
>To: towertalk at contesting.com
>Message-ID:
>
><1322100927.42270.YahooMailClassic at web65408.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>I am trying to? precisely locate a strong static source, were
>familiar with High tension lines arcing at the insulators on very
>dry days. this however is the opposite , it only occurs when its
>raining or has been raining and still wet out it is? local . its
>only about 1000 Ft away but when I aim in the general direction
>there is ?a? good S9 static,??popping sometimes sounds like oil
>burning in a frying pan or a motor boat? its constant for the most
>part?and? particularly most strong on? the 6,10,12,15M
>bands.??With a portable radio I have narrowed it down? to 100 Ft
>radius in area near??the center of 2 streets,?There is?
>transformers, caps and splices in some the power lines?in the area
>?but have yet to find the? exact location of. power line crews
>have looked in the past?without finding anything ?but this has
>been going on for 10+ years any ideas on exactly what might be the
>culprit?? again once its no longer raining or wet out it
> completely goes away making it more difficult to find.
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 21:25:59 -0500 (EST)
>From: TexasRF at aol.com
>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Static source ?
>To: ka1lmr at yahoo.com, towertalk at contesting.com
>Message-ID: <b0795.5a0e8c01.3bff0536 at aol.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>Hello OM, you might try using 2m and a multielement hand held yagi
>to
>further pin point the source. The receiver needs to be on SSB as
>you probably
>already know.
>
>You can further refine the technique by using a pair of yagis, fed
>out of
>phase to look for a null in the noise instead of a peak. The null
>would be
>quite sharp compared to a peak, which could be 50 or more degrees
>at the
>-3dB points, depending on the size of the yagi used.
>
>Happy hunting!
>
>73,
>Gerald K5GW
>
>
>
>
>
>In a message dated 11/23/2011 8:15:45 P.M. Central Standard Time,
>ka1lmr at yahoo.com writes:
>
>I am trying to precisely locate a strong static source, were
>familiar
>with High tension lines arcing at the insulators on very dry
>days. this
>however is the opposite , it only occurs when its raining or has
>been raining and
>still wet out it is local . its only about 1000 Ft away but when
>I aim in
>the general direction there is a good S9
>static, popping sometimes
>sounds like oil burning in a frying pan or a motor
>boat its constant for the
>most part and particularly most strong on the 6,10,12,15M
>bands. With a
>portable radio I have narrowed it down to 100 Ft radius in area
>near the
>center of 2 streets, There is transformers, caps and splices in
>some the
>power lines in the area but have yet to find the exact location
>of. power
>line crews have looked in the past without finding anything but
>this has
>been going on for 10+ years any ideas on exactly what might be
>the culprit?
>again once its no longer raining or wet out it
>completely goes away making it more difficult to find.
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>TowerTalk mailing list
>TowerTalk at contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 23:32:43 -0500
>From: "Ron W8RJL" <youngron at verizon.net>
>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Static source ?
>To: "Tower and HF antenna construction topics."
> <towertalk at contesting.com>, "Chris Merchant KA1LMR"
> <ka1lmr at yahoo.com>
>Message-ID: <EE5EDA4119B348ABB43B7B9B51DCE554 at RonPC>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=original
>
>Ask the power company to use an infrared camera some cool wet
>night to see
>if they can find it. Arcing will produce heat and it will show up
>as a hot
>spot. If power company will not do it see if someone in your area
>does home
>heat loss studies using an IR Camera. See what they would charge
>you for an
>hour of their time. If all else fails send a letter to FCC with a
>copy to
>the power company explaining the problem, the length of time it
>has been
>going on, if you do emergency work (check into ARES nets etc)
>explain that
>it hampers your emergency communications. Don't do it by phone and
>not by
>email, regular old snail mail and make it polite but serious. Then
>set back
>because the wheels at FCC and the Power company do not turn fast
>but you
>should get results.
>
>One other thing, I have done a lot of power line interference work
>and
>sometimes the problem in much further away than you think. Look on
>the other
>side of where you think it is (further away on same line). S9
>problems
>(when Yagi pointed at source) can be more than 1000 feet away
>depending on
>many factors (Yagi gain, feed line loss, receiver preamp on/off, etc).
>
>73 and good luck,
>
>Ron W8RJL
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Chris Merchant KA1LMR" <ka1lmr at yahoo.com>
>To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 9:15 PM
>Subject: [TowerTalk] Static source ?
>
>
>I am trying to precisely locate a strong static source, were
>familiar with
>High tension lines arcing at the insulators on very dry days. this
>however
>is the opposite , it only occurs when its raining or has been
>raining and
>still wet out it is local . its only about 1000 Ft away but when I
>aim in
>the general direction there is a good S9 static, popping sometimes
>sounds
>like oil burning in a frying pan or a motor boat its constant for
>the most
>part and particularly most strong on the 6,10,12,15M bands. With a
>portable
>radio I have narrowed it down to 100 Ft radius in area near the
>center of 2
>streets, There is transformers, caps and splices in some the power
>lines in
>the area but have yet to find the exact location of. power line
>crews have
>looked in the past without finding anything but this has been
>going on for
>10+ years any ideas on exactly what might be the culprit? again
>once its no
>longer raining or wet out it
> completely goes away making it more difficult to find.
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>TowerTalk mailing list
>TowerTalk at contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:47:37 -0500
>From: K8RI <K8RI-on-TowerTalk at tm.net>
>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Static source ?
>To: towertalk at contesting.com
>Message-ID: <4ECDE889.6060505 at tm.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>On 11/23/2011 11:32 PM, Ron W8RJL wrote:
> > Ask the power company to use an infrared camera some cool wet
> night to see
> > if they can find it. Arcing will produce heat and it will show
> up as a hot
> > spot. If power company will not do it see if someone in your
> area does home
> > heat loss studies using an IR Camera. See what they would
> charge you for an
> > hour of their time. If all else fails send a letter to FCC with
> a copy to
> > the power company explaining the problem, the length of time it
> has been
> > going on, if you do emergency work (check into ARES nets etc)
> explain that
> > it hampers your emergency communications. Don't do it by phone
> and not by
> > email, regular old snail mail and make it polite but serious.
> Then set back
> > because the wheels at FCC and the Power company do not turn
> fast but you
> > should get results.
>
>Many movie cameras now days have an IR setting and they are very
>sensitive.
>If you don't have one, borrow one and just watch the viewfinder. They
>have tremendous zoom ranges that let you look at things like that in
>detail from quite a distance. Mine is digital tape and I loaned
>it to
>my daughter/grand daughter long ago as we used it very little.
>
>73
>
>Roger (K8RI)
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2011 01:49:55 -0500
>From: "Mike Ryan" <mryan001 at tampabay.rr.com>
>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Static source ?
>To: "'Tower and HF antenna construction topics.'"
> <towertalk at contesting.com>
>Message-ID: <001e01ccaa75$46589dd0$d309d970$@rr.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Well, yes and no on that last post. Don't expect much help unless
>you give
>help.
> >From a Florida Ham:
>First of all, not sure where you are located but getting HELP from
>the power
>company is tough and AT NIGHT is nearly impossible. It's called
>OVERTIME.
>Looking for someone's power line interference problem is about as
>low on the
>priority totem pole for a power company as things can get. The
>fact in this
>area YOU would have to find the problem, then ASK the power
>company to come
>to the spot, verify the problem, and then get an order in to get
>it fixed,
>usually 2 - 3 weeks after the problem is verified. It sounds like
>you have
>it narrowed down pretty good already.
>But if not, start with the direction from your QTH. If you don't
>know what
>basic direction the noise is from you, you may have a longer time
>getting
>some relief so get busy and get a direction. Using an HF beam may
>or may not
>help. I recommend a 2 mtr beam and a 2mtr radio in AM or CW mode
>if you can
>get your hands on one. If not use 6 mtrs. The higher the freq the
>better for
>searching. I am not trying to sound like an expert here. But, my
>experience
>tracking this stuff spans 25 years or more, mostly from my mobile
>setup. But
>even when you find the POLE the noise may be from, the exact
>source on the
>pole is where you will need the power company and their eqpt to
>nail it
>down, assuming they are sophisticated enough or have the means to
>do so. In
>many cases with an ultrasonic device that can detect the source
>down to the
>bolt, staple, or washer on the pole. It's a mini satellite dish
>looking
>affair and very directional. In my experience power line noises
>are RARELY a
>transformer. It is usually loose hardware, a bad lighting
>arrestor, or a
>dirty insulator that has developed a carbon trace across it that
>arcs, many
>times the ground wire running down the pole to the ground rod
>which has
>staples holding it in place. During the rainy season here there
>are fewer
>problems 'cause the rain keeps things clean. When the climate gets
>dryer but
>WET at night is when it gets hard to live with. The staples on the
>poles
>work loose with the shrinking and expanding of the poles with the
>seasons
>and create problems. You will never see this arcing from the
>ground. Your
>power company guy may have an Oak Labs direction finder/recvr that
>has an
>attenuator built in, or something similar to help in the search I
>loaned the
>local guy here a MJF unit just to have another tool in his truck. But
>unfortunately that thing is merely a toy, and not that great. They
>work on
>137mhz and if you have a local FM broadcast station around close
>you may
>hear more of it than of power line noise. When I point it north,
>sometimes I
>hear stuff from the nearby aircraft band on it going in or out of
>TIA. But
>it is better than nothing for getting some direction to start with.
>My first line of 'defense' has gotten much simpler the last few
>years. If
>your power line noise is power line noise you should hear it on
>just about
>ALL the HF bands. If when you are turning the VFO knob the noise
>disappears
>but comes back every 30kc or so, you might have a CABLE TV leak. I
>use a
>KENWOOD TH-F6A handheld, set to 14.070 or something like that,
>with the
>handheld put in AM MODE... that's AM MODE, then connected to a
>10mter mag
>mount antenna. That way I can put it in my wife's car which has
>no ignition
>noise. The handheld is nearly deaf on 20meters using a 10mter
>antenna which
>is perfect. You don't want to hear anything but the POWER LINE
>NOISE when
>you drive up under the offending pole..and you will. Once you
>think you have
>it nailed down, disconnect the mag mount and put the rubber duck
>antenna on.
>If you still hear the power line noise with that (you may or may
>not) start
>calling the power company. This has worked for me almost as well
>as having a
>Kenwood TS480 and a Tarheel antenna. For more ideas take a look
>at my good
>friend Mike Martin's home page at RFIservices.com. If you can
>send him a
>WAVE file of a noise, he will likely tell you what the noise is.
>In your
>case you already think it's power line so this may not help you.
>Just google
>him. He has been in the business for over 30 years and is known
>internationally.
>I have similar WET noise issues here at night due to the humidity,
>dew, and
>fog off Tampa Bay and the Gulf. It is bad at night, during the day
>when the
>sun is out and things dry off, it goes away. Drives you crazy and
>the power
>company guys cannot find it. So, at night the handheld goes in the
>car and I
>have to track it down at 2 or 3 in the morning when things are
>really wet
>out.
>Good hunting ... sorry to be so long winded. - Mike
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: towertalk-bounces at contesting.com
>[mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ron W8RJL
>Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 11:33 PM
>To: Tower and HF antenna construction topics.; Chris Merchant KA1LMR
>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Static source ?
>
>Ask the power company to use an infrared camera some cool wet
>night to see
>if they can find it. Arcing will produce heat and it will show up
>as a hot
>spot. If power company will not do it see if someone in your area
>does home
>heat loss studies using an IR Camera. See what they would charge
>you for an
>hour of their time. If all else fails send a letter to FCC with a
>copy to
>the power company explaining the problem, the length of time it
>has been
>going on, if you do emergency work (check into ARES nets etc)
>explain that
>it hampers your emergency communications. Don't do it by phone and
>not by
>email, regular old snail mail and make it polite but serious. Then
>set back
>because the wheels at FCC and the Power company do not turn fast
>but you
>should get results.
>
>One other thing, I have done a lot of power line interference work
>and
>sometimes the problem in much further away than you think. Look on
>the other
>
>side of where you think it is (further away on same line). S9
>problems
>(when Yagi pointed at source) can be more than 1000 feet away
>depending on
>many factors (Yagi gain, feed line loss, receiver preamp on/off, etc).
>
>73 and good luck,
>
>Ron W8RJL
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Chris Merchant KA1LMR" <ka1lmr at yahoo.com>
>To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 9:15 PM
>Subject: [TowerTalk] Static source ?
>
>
>I am trying to precisely locate a strong static source, were
>familiar with
>High tension lines arcing at the insulators on very dry days. this
>however
>is the opposite , it only occurs when its raining or has been
>raining and
>still wet out it is local . its only about 1000 Ft away but when I
>aim in
>the general direction there is a good S9 static, popping sometimes
>sounds
>like oil burning in a frying pan or a motor boat its constant for
>the most
>part and particularly most strong on the 6,10,12,15M bands. With a
>portable
>radio I have narrowed it down to 100 Ft radius in area near the
>center of 2
>streets, There is transformers, caps and splices in some the power
>lines in
>the area but have yet to find the exact location of. power line
>crews have
>looked in the past without finding anything but this has been
>going on for
>10+ years any ideas on exactly what might be the culprit? again
>once its no
>longer raining or wet out it
> completely goes away making it more difficult to find.
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>TowerTalk mailing list
>TowerTalk at contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>TowerTalk mailing list
>TowerTalk at contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
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>
>
>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>signature
>database 6654 (20111123) __________
>
>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
>http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
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>
>End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 107, Issue 56
>******************************************
>
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