[TowerTalk] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 121, Issue 11

[Dennis Riise]

In my humble opinion.:

Jerry,
The choices for mastingare very high. Weight and wind load is critical 
for a ROHN 25 tower.  I used, for 35+ years, a 20 foot 2" [OD]  thick 
wall aluminum conduit for my mast in a 60' ROHN 25 w/a Ham M rotor. It 
was guyed at 3 levels using Torque bars and insulators on them.  The 
tower was also a Vertical.  It supported 3 Hy-Gain beams .They were a  a 
TH6-DX, a 6 Element 6 Meter beam and a 10 Element 2 meter beam. A 65 MPH 
strait line wind brought down a near by ASH tree limb, that hit the 
middle of the tower and my pride & joy antenna system was dead crumpled 
on the roof. The mast didn't change shape at all and is being reused.

I use 'Metal Super Market' in Dallas for most of my metal antenna 
needs.  Irving is mid way [15 miles] between Dallas & Ft Worth, Texas.  
I looked up your call on QRZ.com if it is correct, and found your Zip 
Code of 94553.    I entered it into the www.metalsupermarkets.com web 
page on it's page 2. The nearest location for one of their stores is in 
Hayward, Ca.  [Their Zip code was not indicated]. Their email is: 
hayward at supermarkets.com. Their address is: 2301 Industrial Parkway 
West, Hayward, CA. Phone #: 510-259-1005.  The alternate location in 
your area is @ 705 Comstock Street, in Santa Clara, CA. Their number is: 
408-654-9177.  Their email is: santaclara at metalsupermarkets.com.   I am 
an Electronics type and not a mechanical engineer but why black pipe or 
85 PSI needed for antenna mast. They bend and stay in it's last position 
with high wind bursts. My mast was always bending with high winds but 
always returned to normal after the high winds [or tornado's went by]. 
Hee hee hee  The 6061 is available in 1/8" or 1/4". They have many 
stores all around the states. Always ask for FOB pickup point unless 
shipping is inexpensive to your needs or some one else is paying the fare.

Good luck. I hope I have helped. (Being an ex-California ham [KN6/K6DFJ 
1st in 1953]).
Please reply to: dariise at verizon.net if I was or I was not of any help.  
The Dallas area winds are about peek at 65 - 75 MPH [if not in a direct 
line of a Tornado which can be what ever God wishes at the time]. Hee 
hee hee

73's,
Dennis, K5AVT
On 1/5/2013 7:43 AM, towertalk-request at contesting.com wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
>     1. Re: Source for 2" OD Mast (Grant Saviers)
>     2. Re: Bye Bye Birdies (Grant Saviers)
>     3. Re: Source for 2" OD Mast (Jon Pearl - W4ABC)
>     4. Horizontal Loop Performance?? (Edward Sylvester)
>     5. Re: Source for 2" OD Mast (K1TTT)
>     6. Help with rotor valuation, Telrex (Matrin Sole)
>     7. Re: Help with rotor valuation, Telrex (K1TTT)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2013 17:21:27 -0800
> From: Grant Saviers <grants2 at pacbell.net>
> To: Jerry Gardner <jerryw6uv at gmail.com>, towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Source for 2" OD Mast
> Message-ID: <50E78017.1080906 at pacbell.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> see my earlier post also.  I forgot to mention A513 DOM tube which has a
> little less yield than normalized 4130 with 72kpsi yield at about 40% of
> the cost.  I use it when high yield stuff is needed. Jorgensen might
> have it, onlinemetals here in Seattle stocks it, pretty convenient for me.
>
> One more thought - wander through SIMS Metal (recycling) on south 1st st
> (1900 Monterey)  in San Jose (next door and north of the junk recycling
> yard).  I've found 4130 & 4140 which they sell for the usual recycle
> $/lb for scrap usable steel.  It's a matter of luck if the stuff is
> marked, but worth a try.  Also, there is a lot of aluminum and they sell
> new small structural hot rolled steel up to 4x4 square and 6" WF beams.
> Sometimes there is a lot of drill pipe which is a pretty strong (and
> hard alloy), nice to build 35' masts for stuff.
>
> Grant KZ1W
>
>
> On 1/4/2013 12:26 PM, Jerry Gardner wrote:
>> Anyone know of a source for a 2" OD 5 to 20 foot steel mast  in the
>> vicinity of the S.F. Bay Area? Something with around 87 k psi yield
>> strength would be ideal.
>>
>> Lots of on-line places sell these, but the shipping cost is greater than
>> the cost of the mast itself. If there's someplace close to me that stocks
>> something suitable, I'll rent a U-Haul truck and go pick it up.
>>
>> 73, Jerry
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2013 17:26:15 -0800
> From: Grant Saviers <grants2 at pacbell.net>
> To: Patrick Greenlee <patrick_g at windstream.net>
> Cc: towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Bye Bye Birdies
> Message-ID: <50E78137.2000101 at pacbell.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Patrick
>
> Please suggest some stocking suppliers and models.
>
> Grant KZ1W
>
> On 1/4/2013 10:52 AM, Patrick Greenlee wrote:
>> Plastic owls and rubber snakes work for some folks but are not
>> universally successful.
>>
>> Ultrasonic emissions have a much higher success record. Ultrasonic
>> waves are easy to "beam" directionally which permits a ground or near
>> ground level installation with the transducer(s) aimed up to where the
>> birds like to perch.  Aiming the sound upward keeps from disturbing
>> the dogs and cats.
>>
>> These devices are available COTS for relatively little money or easily
>> built by the electronic savvy. Mine have lasted for many years and
>> still work well.  Some of these devices offer choices on the type of
>> output.  A randomly occurring warble tone similar to the "yelping
>> style" public safety sirens (but of course in the ultrasonic spectrum)
>> seems to work best. Having it come on at random intervals works best
>> and keeps the birds from getting used to it.
>>
>> Inexpensive "tweeters" of the horn variety work well, especially if
>> the design lends itself to accepting a drain hole for water (well...
>> it is aimed up) Alternatively an enclosure with a hard flat reflective
>> surface to aim the beam upward will work.
>>
>> I have used these for many years with great success, not only for
>> birds but other pests as well when coupled with IR motion detector
>> including cats and dogs who used to think my yard a public restroom
>> and the odd skunk, raccoon, armadillo, or opossum.
>>
>> Patrick AF5CK
>>
>>
>>
>> iginal Message----- From: Jim Lux
>> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2012 5:16 AM
>> To: towertalk at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Bye Bye Birdies
>>
>> On 12/28/12 9:11 PM, Bob K6UJ wrote:
>>> Another option for bird control is to get one of the plastic owls and
>>> put him up on the tribander.
>>> My results were negative, evidently the birds in our area aren't
>>> scared of owls because the owl didn't help at all.
>>> When i took it down I discovered the birds had crapped all over it.
>>> :-)
>>>
>>
>> my in-laws experience with their vineyard was that birds are discouraged
>> by novelty and change.  reflective ribbons one week, owls the next, etc.
>>   That doesn't lend itself to antennas
>>
>> the other strategy which seems to work quite well is to make what ever
>> it is "not sittable on".  those funky plastic spiky things or
>> string/monofilament.
>>
>> Of course, neither of the latter are particularly easy to do on
>> something like a multielement beam, especially if you want it to last
>> for decades.
>>
>> For ordinary wire antennas.. I suppose, if you use strong enough copper
>> clad steel, the birds can just sit on the wire forever.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2013 20:35:11 -0500
> From: Jon Pearl - W4ABC <jonpearl at tampabay.rr.com>
> To: EZ Rhino <EZRhino at fastmovers.biz>
> Cc: Towertalk <towertalk at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Source for 2" OD Mast
> Message-ID: <50E7834F.1090607 at tampabay.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi Chris.
>
>
> http://www.w4abc.com/Masts.html
>
> Well... between Christmas, digging up my sewer line and 24 hour shifts
> at work -- it's slow in coming.  I've had the page up for a few weeks
> and was going to get to it during Christmas vacation.
>
> It's always easier to point to one spot where information lies rather
> than hunting-up and then sending someone ten links.
>
>
>
> 73,
>
>
> Jon
>
>
>
> On 1/4/2013 7:17 PM, EZ Rhino wrote:
>> Somebody aught to put together a "TowerTalk Chronicles", or Tower Talk Wiki, or something.  Not that we don't want to be helpful, but these topics do repeat from time to time.  Maybe it would be good to just say "look it up on the Wiki?"
>>
>> Or just buy Steve's book, heh. :-)
>>
>> Chris
>> KF7P
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 17:12 , Rick Karlquist wrote:
>>
>> N2TK, Tony wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Rick Karlquist
>>> <richard at karlquist.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Also, pipe is never 2" OD.  So called 2 inch pipe has a 2.375" OD.
>>>> It won't fit most tower hardware.
>>>>
>>> That goes to show how much I don't know about masts. I'm planning to use a
>>> Rohn TB3 thrust bearing at  the top of the tower -- what tubing OD would I
>>> specify to a metal dealer to get something that is compatible with the
>> Clarification:  2 inch TUBING has an OD of 2 inches
>> So called 2 inch PIPE has an OD of 2 3/8 inches
>> You want to buy TUBING for a mast.  If what you buy has
>> an OD of 2 inches, you can be sure it isn't water pipe.
>> Yes this is confuzing.
>>
>> Rick N6RK
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 23:12:12 -0800 (PST)
> From: Edward Sylvester <navydude1962 at yahoo.com>
> To: towertalk at contesting.com
> Cc: topband at contesting.com
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Horizontal Loop Performance??
> Message-ID:
> 	<1357369932.16595.YahooMailClassic at web120604.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
> Greetings All!
> ?
> I am in Saudi Arabia and had the opportunity to throw up some wire antennas.? I put up 30' of fiberglass mast on my 25' roof and installed an 80m INV VEE fed with open wire line, straight to tuner.? Hears extremely well.? Cannot transmit until I get a license, which is in the works.
> ?
> I decided to take advantage of some tall coconut trees and installed a triangular-shaped horizontal loop with >700' of wire fed with open wire line, up 35-50', taking into account the sagging.? This goes straight into a 1:1 current balun at ground level.? Coax run is about 6'.? No issues.? Tunes perfectly.
> ?
> I ran some A/B comparisons with the Inv Vee and determined that they are very similar in performance!
> ?
> I was hoping the Loop would blow away the Inv Vee but was disappointed when this did not occur.? Has this been your experience?? I have tried to read as much as possible, but there are varying opinions on loop expectations.?
> ?
> Your opinion would be greatly appreciated.? Frustrated....
> ?
> 73,
> Ed NI6S (soon to be HZ1xx and QRV on 160m)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2013 12:08:11 +0000
> From: "K1TTT" <K1TTT at ARRL.NET>
> To: "'Towertalk'" <towertalk at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Source for 2" OD Mast
> Message-ID: <01b401cdeb3d$55c74eb0$0155ec10$@ARRL.NET>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> That's kind of how my tech reference section on my web site got started, but
> once the various reflectors got busy and the search engines became better I
> stopped updating it.  I am now using some real wiki software for other parts
> of my web site and could easily create a reference wiki site to allow
> external editors to maintain topics... though it would probably be better if
> someone with real servers and a fatter pipe did it.
>
> David Robbins K1TTT
> e-mail: mailto:k1ttt at arrl.net
> web: http://wiki.k1ttt.net
> AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://k1ttt.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: EZ Rhino [mailto:EZRhino at fastmovers.biz]
> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 00:17
> To: Towertalk
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Source for 2" OD Mast
>
> Somebody aught to put together a "TowerTalk Chronicles", or Tower Talk Wiki,
> or something.  Not that we don't want to be helpful, but these topics do
> repeat from time to time.  Maybe it would be good to just say "look it up on
> the Wiki?"
>
> Or just buy Steve's book, heh. :-)
>
> Chris
> KF7P
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 17:12 , Rick Karlquist wrote:
>
> N2TK, Tony wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Rick Karlquist
>> <richard at karlquist.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Also, pipe is never 2" OD.  So called 2 inch pipe has a 2.375" OD.
>>> It won't fit most tower hardware.
>>>
>> That goes to show how much I don't know about masts. I'm planning to
>> use a Rohn TB3 thrust bearing at  the top of the tower -- what tubing
>> OD would I specify to a metal dealer to get something that is
>> compatible with the
> Clarification:  2 inch TUBING has an OD of 2 inches So called 2 inch PIPE
> has an OD of 2 3/8 inches You want to buy TUBING for a mast.  If what you
> buy has an OD of 2 inches, you can be sure it isn't water pipe.
> Yes this is confuzing.
>
> Rick N6RK
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 20:05:27 +0700
> From: "Matrin Sole" <hs0zed at csloxinfo.com>
> To: "'Towertalk'" <towertalk at contesting.com>
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Help with rotor valuation, Telrex
> Message-ID: <00db01cdeb45$554c58b0$ffe50a10$@csloxinfo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>
> I have a large rotator that I am trying to find information on and some idea
> as to value. Since it is really too big for anything I might ever have I
> will likely dispose of it if I can figure out a reasonable value. Weighs
> about 40kG so unless you live in Thailand I don't think this is for you.
>
> It is a Telrex A3695RISX, that's what it says on the model number label.
> Weighs about 40kG, large 1/3 HP Doerr motor driving a 3.5 inch output shaft
> by way of two worm drive gearboxes and a 1 inch wide chain. Direction
> information is from a General Electric Selsyn  coupled to the drive shaft by
> a small chain. The whole thing is mounted on an 18 inch by 10 inch steel
> plate.
>
> Anybody know anything about these, have any info, or care to offer an
> estimate as to likely value?
>
> Thanks
> Martin, HS0ZED
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2013 13:43:45 +0000
> From: "K1TTT" <K1TTT at ARRL.NET>
> To: "'Towertalk'" <towertalk at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Help with rotor valuation, Telrex
> Message-ID: <01bb01cdeb4a$af90c4a0$0eb24de0$@ARRL.NET>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> To refresh memories, you asked about this one last year (ain't google
> great), and posted a picture at: http://tinyurl.com/78r5nk8
> And there is a thread in the archives describing it:
> http://lists.contesting.com/archives//html/Towertalk/2012-02/msg00399.html
>
> If the selsyns and motor work and there isn't too much play in the chain
> drive I would probably pay $500 for it if someone had it nearby and I had a
> use for it.  Without a pressing need for it I might invest $250 and spend
> some time cleaning it up to resell.  It will probably need to be cleaned up
> and painted, and maybe have the gear boxes opened up to check for
> lubrication and make sure there isn't any water damage in them.  The motor
> should also probably be checked.  One big problem with some of the old
> telrex rotors is that they only fit in BIG towers, you can't stuff them into
> rohn 25 or similar towers, and they are kind of a waste for small antennas
> anyway.  This kind of limits the market for them.  The use of selsyns also
> limits the use of after-market controllers, you have to refit them to use a
> pot for indication or use the old controller.
>
>
> David Robbins K1TTT
> e-mail: mailto:k1ttt at arrl.net
> web: http://wiki.k1ttt.net
> AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://k1ttt.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matrin Sole [mailto:hs0zed at csloxinfo.com]
> Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 13:05
> To: 'Towertalk'
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Help with rotor valuation, Telrex
>
> I have a large rotator that I am trying to find information on and some idea
> as to value. Since it is really too big for anything I might ever have I
> will likely dispose of it if I can figure out a reasonable value. Weighs
> about 40kG so unless you live in Thailand I don't think this is for you.
>
> It is a Telrex A3695RISX, that's what it says on the model number label.
> Weighs about 40kG, large 1/3 HP Doerr motor driving a 3.5 inch output shaft
> by way of two worm drive gearboxes and a 1 inch wide chain. Direction
> information is from a General Electric Selsyn  coupled to the drive shaft by
> a small chain. The whole thing is mounted on an 18 inch by 10 inch steel
> plate.
>
> Anybody know anything about these, have any info, or care to offer an
> estimate as to likely value?
>
> Thanks
> Martin, HS0ZED
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 121, Issue 11
> ******************************************