[TowerTalk] Rotor problems and guy replacement

Mitchell, Dennis C dmitchell at alionscience.com
Fri Jun 28 11:35:43 EDT 2013


Change the large capacitor...

Mitch Mitchell
Alion Science & Technology
306 Sentinel Dr., Suite 300
Annapolis Junction, MD 20701
(240) 646-3604


-----Original Message-----
From: TowerTalk [mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of ni3p at comcast.net
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 11:31 AM
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Cc: Steve Oksala
Subject: [TowerTalk] Rotor problems and guy replacement



Help!  My friendly manager at Ham Radio Outlet recommended you guys as the best place for good advice ... 



I have a  problem with my HF antenna system.  It is a Rohn 25 tower at 50 feet; the one antenna is a Force 12 C3 seven element beam.  My rotor is a Yaesu G-800DXA. The cable has been there for about 25 years, the antenna about six years, and the rotor about four years. 



The problem is with the Yaesu rotor system.  For the last few months, it does not appear to be operating properly.  The symptoms are 

~ It turns very slowly, and seems to "pulse" rather than rotating smoothly; 

~ the speed control seems to have no effect, and the pre-set control does not work. 

~ it stops when encountering even the lightest branch on a nearby tree. (I am waiting for the tree guy now).  It also sometimes, but not always, will rotate over only a limited range - this range can vary from time to time - without encountering a branch.   It seems worse in the rain. 



So it could be the rotor, the control unit, or the cable (with its connectors at either end) .  So my question is - how can I determine which part of the system is at fault without replacing everything?  And if I do decide I need to replace it, is there a better choice than the Yaesu product?  I have no intention of putting any more of a load on it than the C3. 



Separately, I have been advised that I should look at replacing the current guys, which were installed when the tower was originally "planted' around 1985.  They are currently guyed into trees, which has not been a problem.  (Ground guying would be better, but that has spousal problems :)). I do need to do something about at least two of them (guys are at 25 and 50 feet) because the tree needs to be cut out - I am looking at putting a steel post in the ground near that location and using that.  However it has been so long since I did it that I do not know what the best approach is (wire of Phillystran) and what other components I might need.  A simple tutorial would be great, but I have not found one on the web. 



Would appreciate any help I can get on these issues.  thanks in advance, 



Steve Oksala 

NI3P 



----- Forwarded Message -----


From: towertalk-request at contesting.com
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 12:01:09 AM
Subject: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 126, Issue 71 

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Today's Topics: 

   1. Re: What rotor should I use (David Gilbert) 
   2. Question for list administrator (John) 
   3. Re: What rotor should I use (Oops) (K8RI) 
   4. Luso towers (Drax Felton) 
   5. Going for it! (K8RI) 
   6. Re: Question for list administrator (Tom Osborne) 
   7. Re: Question for list administrator (Neil Goodell Jr) 
   8. Anyone with bucket truck / lift in Detroit Metro? (Mario) 
   9. Mast material (mike stokes) 
  10. Re: Going for it! (Larry Loen) 
  11. Re: Mast material (Grant Saviers) 


---------------------------------------------------------------------- 

Message: 1 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 09:59:56 -0700 
From: David Gilbert <xdavid at cis-broadband.com> 
To: towertalk at contesting.com 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] What rotor should I use 
Message-ID: <51CC6F8C.7060007 at cis-broadband.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed 


Just look at the physics of it.  Whipping of the elements represents 
stored energy, just as in a spring.  If that energy is released at the 
end of travel it adds to the momentum of the elements that would 
otherwise be due only to their mass.  I'm not saying that aluminum 
elements don't whip, but any antenna with lots of whip is going to put 
more stress on a rotator than an antenna with less whip ... assuming the 
masses are equivalent. 

By the way, given the material properties of fiberglass versus aluminum, 
and without knowing the exact figures, I wouldn't be surprised to learn 
that fiberglass elements also have more mass than comparable aluminum 
elements. 

73, 
Dave   AB7E 



On 6/27/2013 9:38 AM, Steve Dyer wrote: 
> Any large beam, fiberglass tube or aluminum is going to potentially whip in wind. I've never seen any compelling evidence a SteppIR causes any more forces at the rotator than an *equivalently* sized Al beam. 
> 
> 73, 
> Steve 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________ 
>   From: Joe Nuccio <k4nyy at yahoo.com> 
> To: Chris Pinholster <k4win at mac.com> 
> Cc: "towertalk at contesting.com" <towertalk at contesting.com> 
> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 5:29 AM 
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] What rotor should I use 
>   
> 
> Hi Chris, 
> 
> Thanks for the input and your experience. 
> 
> 
> The concern seems to that the 36' elements on the SeppIR start 'whipping' back and 
> forth while the antenna is being rotated which puts a lot of stress on the gears when it 
> comes to a stop. Apparently, this 'whipping' action is not of a concern on large beams 
> made out of aluminum. 
> 
> 
> 73,  Joe  K4NYY 
> 
> 



------------------------------ 

Message: 2 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 13:40:11 -0400 
From: John <jh.graves at verizon.net> 
To: towertalk at contesting.com 
Subject: [TowerTalk] Question for list administrator 
Message-ID: <51CC78FB.6090306 at verizon.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed 

I am receiving 2 copies of messages to the board. Am I entered twice as 
a member or have I requested multiple copies unknowingly? 

John  /  WA1JG 


------------------------------ 

Message: 3 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:01:16 -0400 
From: K8RI <K8RI-on-TowerTalk at tm.net> 
To: towertalk at contesting.com 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] What rotor should I use (Oops) 
Message-ID: <51CC7DEC.3060705 at tm.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed 


> 
> There is a fully loaded StepIR  (40 through 6 meters) about two blocks 
> from me and I believe he is using either the Ham IV or tail twister. 
> He monitors this list occasionally and might comment. 

Though I'd better check with him to be sure. 
If my memory holds for 5 minutes, instead of the ham series he is using 
an Orion 2800? 

73 

Roger (K8RI) 



------------------------------ 

Message: 4 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 14:50:41 -0400 
From: "Drax Felton" <draxfelton at gmail.com> 
To: <towertalk at contesting.com> 
Subject: [TowerTalk] Luso towers 
Message-ID: <00a201ce7367$39a1bdd0$ace53970$@com> 
Content-Type: text/plain;        charset="us-ascii" 

  

Has anyone ever installed a Luso tower? 

  

I'd like to ask you some questions  off list.   

Starting with how did you off load the shipping container? 

  

Drax       kb3x 

  

  



------------------------------ 

Message: 5 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 17:12:45 -0400 
From: K8RI <K8RI-on-TowerTalk at tm.net> 
To: "towertalk at contesting.com" <towertalk at contesting.com> 
Subject: [TowerTalk] Going for it! 
Message-ID: <51CCAACD.5050906 at tm.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed 

I decided to bite the bullet and get a contractor for the tower.  I had 
planned on doing a lot, but it's going to be some time before I get a 
lot of use out of my left arm.  I did have a volunteer to dig the hole, 
but the contractor will haul away the dirt, fix the ruts in the yard, 
give me a quote on the rebar cage and get the concrete poured, as well 
as taking it down at its present location and bringing it home. 

Yah, it will cost more, but I'll save nearly a $1000 by not having to 
pump the concrete.  In the end the cost isn't much more and money saved 
was enough to get my wife to agree to the trucks in the North yard. 

BTW I finally found the reason for the strokes.  It took wearing a 
monitor for a few days, but the finally discovered that my heart goes 
into Afib which can cause clots in the one chamber. When it goes back 
into rhythm, it squirts out those clots which can migrate to the brain, 
  They (Cardiologist, Neurologist, and Family Dr) figure they can 
prevent that. 

  Now if they'd discovered that a year ago, I would still be climbing 
towers and flying airplanes.  Still there is a good chance they can 
prevent another occurrence...I hope. Still, life carries no guarantees. 

73, 

Roger (K8RI) 



------------------------------ 

Message: 6 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 18:24:45 -0700 
From: "Tom Osborne" <w7why at frontier.com> 
To: "Towertalk" <towertalk at contesting.com> 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Question for list administrator 
Message-ID: <CDF334B0BA6E4FD992CC2236279022E7 at Tom> 

Hi John 

I only see 1 copy here.  Must be something in your provider.  73 
Tom W7WHY 



I am receiving 2 copies of messages to the board. Am I entered twice as 
a member or have I requested multiple copies unknowingly? 

John  /  WA1JG 




------------------------------ 

Message: 7 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 21:41:21 -0400 
From: Neil Goodell Jr <neil.goodell at myfairpoint.net> 
To: towertalk at contesting.com 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Question for list administrator 
Message-ID: <51CCE9C1.9030100 at myfairpoint.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed 

I always receive two copy's also... 
never thought nothing of it, until 
John mentioned it... 

Neil / AE1P 


On 6/27/2013 9:24 PM, Tom Osborne wrote: 
> Hi John 
> 
> I only see 1 copy here.  Must be something in your provider.  73 
> Tom W7WHY 
> 
> 
> 
> I am receiving 2 copies of messages to the board. Am I entered twice as 
> a member or have I requested multiple copies unknowingly? 
> 
> John  /  WA1JG 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> TowerTalk mailing list 
> TowerTalk at contesting.com 
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk 
> 
> 



------------------------------ 

Message: 8 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 22:04:42 -0400 
From: "Mario" <marionow at gmail.com> 
To: <towertalk at contesting.com> 
Subject: [TowerTalk] Anyone with bucket truck / lift in Detroit Metro? 
Message-ID: <05ea01ce73a3$dbd47340$937d59c0$@com> 
Content-Type: text/plain;        charset="us-ascii" 

Helllo, 

  

I need to install my HF LDPA on the new 60ft tower . Looking for someone 
with a bucket truck / lift for hire in Detroit Metro. 

  

Please contact me directly for details. 

  

73, 

Mario 

KC8P 

  

  



------------------------------ 

Message: 9 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 23:35:39 -0400 
From: mike stokes <mike9v at gmail.com> 
To: "Tower and HF antenna construction topics." 
        <towertalk at contesting.com> 
Subject: [TowerTalk] Mast material 
Message-ID: 
        <CAF3X6dKn6NOdxpm4y+ijx59gm68U-K6U_vD8oQyA9hHmnVPmUA at mail.gmail.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 

I have a line one some used masts.  Both aluminum and steel.  Is there 
an easy way to determine if they are actually tubing or pipe ?  or 
what type f material they are made of ?  The are from the estate of an 
SK so not much help there. 

Thanks in advance. 

-- 
Mike Stokes 
KK9V 


------------------------------ 

Message: 10 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 20:50:00 -0700 
From: Larry Loen <lwloen at gmail.com> 
To: K8RI <K8RI-on-TowerTalk at tm.net> 
Cc: "towertalk at contesting.com" <towertalk at contesting.com> 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Going for it! 
Message-ID: 
        <CAJRedisSiR=01+fy9zmnq_fa2oNJgccDox4VNYV2RiD+JM4TAQ at mail.gmail.com> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 

You will almost certainly also have a well-levelled tower.  That's worth 
something, too. 

My contractor gave me a dead level base for my 72 footer, a fact I 
appreciate every day. 


Larry Wo0Z 

On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 2:12 PM, K8RI <K8RI-on-TowerTalk at tm.net> wrote: 

> I decided to bite the bullet and get a contractor for the tower.  I had 
> planned on doing a lot, but it's going to be some time before I get a lot 
> of use out of my left arm.  I did have a volunteer to dig the hole, but the 
> contractor will haul away the dirt, fix the ruts in the yard, give me a 
> quote on the rebar cage and get the concrete poured, as well as taking it 
> down at its present location and bringing it home. 
> 
> Yah, it will cost more, but I'll save nearly a $1000 by not having to pump 
> the concrete.  In the end the cost isn't much more and money saved was 
> enough to get my wife to agree to the trucks in the North yard. 
> 
> BTW I finally found the reason for the strokes.  It took wearing a monitor 
> for a few days, but the finally discovered that my heart goes into Afib 
> which can cause clots in the one chamber. When it goes back into rhythm, it 
> squirts out those clots which can migrate to the brain,  They 
> (Cardiologist, Neurologist, and Family Dr) figure they can prevent that. 
> 
>  Now if they'd discovered that a year ago, I would still be climbing 
> towers and flying airplanes.  Still there is a good chance they can prevent 
> another occurrence...I hope. Still, life carries no guarantees. 
> 
> 73, 
> 
> Roger (K8RI) 
> 
> ______________________________**_________________ 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________**_________________ 
> TowerTalk mailing list 
> TowerTalk at contesting.com 
> http://lists.contesting.com/**mailman/listinfo/towertalk<http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk> 
> 


------------------------------ 

Message: 11 
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 20:59:52 -0700 
From: Grant Saviers <grants2 at pacbell.net> 
To: mike stokes <mike9v at gmail.com> 
Cc: "Tower and HF antenna construction topics." 
        <towertalk at contesting.com> 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Mast material 
Message-ID: <51CD0A38.9060008 at pacbell.net> 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed 

Tubing usually means the OD is measured in fractional inch increments, 
usually 1/16", eg 2", 2.25" etc. 
Pipe usually means conforming to the Inch Pipe Standards - the inch 
"size" e.g 2" is not 2" od or id.  One reason is the wall thickness 
varies with the "schedule" designation - most commonly schedule 40, but 
schedule 10, 20, 40, 80, 160 and others are available.  The od's for all 
schedule sizes of a given IPS pipe size are the same so they can be 
threaded with the same dies.  Look it up on wikipedia for the id and od 
numbers. 

So if you measure, you will know tubing vs pipe, but not the alloy or 
temper, which is what really matters for tubing.  Sch 40 pipe is 
generally a bad choice for masts (unless lightly loaded) because of the 
way it is made and the uncontrolled steel alloy used.  A file test can 
be done on steel tubing - if it's hard then you have something that is 
better than sch 40.  Drill pipe surplus is common in some locales.  It 
is hardened and a better grade steel.  If you can see a weld bead inside 
a tube then it is not the grade usually used for masts, which is smooth 
inside as it is DOM - Drawn Over Mandrel after welding the seam, and 
then heat treated. 

Without some instruments, it's almost impossible to determine what the 
aluminum alloy and temper is of an unmarked piece of Al. 

Definitely caveat emptor! 

Grant KZ1W 


On 6/27/2013 8:35 PM, mike stokes wrote: 
> I have a line one some used masts.  Both aluminum and steel.  Is there 
> an easy way to determine if they are actually tubing or pipe ?  or 
> what type f material they are made of ?  The are from the estate of an 
> SK so not much help there. 
> 
> Thanks in advance. 
> 



------------------------------ 

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