[TowerTalk] Non resonant guy considerations

Thu May 2 23:43:31 EDT 2013

On 5/2/2013 3:30 PM, Patrick Greenlee wrote:
> George, thanks for the rundown.  I will try steel for my 40 ft crank-up
> tilt-over which will only have VHF and UHF on it.

Are you sure guying the crank up is a good idea?  Also, most of the guy 
weight is held up bu the tower. for 1/4 or 3/8 EHS that can be 
substantial additional weight for the tower to support

>
> How far away from my Hy-Gain Hy-Tower or a 50 ft grounded tower with 6
> band HF beam should I place the tower with continuous steel guys to
> avoid the tower and guys interfering with the HF beam?

I have had a 40' tower that was going to be a 50 footer that is now 
going to turn into an LM470 with a C19XR at 72' and a WARC7 above it. 
Its about 60 feet from my 100 foot 45G.
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/tower.htm
The 45G is guyed with Phillystran to 10' elevated guy anchors which I 
don't recommend. Photos of the small tower are out of date.

I've had various antennas on the various incarnation of this set up with 
no interaction..."except" when I ran a 40 m sloper about 20 feet at the 
closest with an AV640 vertical on the short tower.  The only interaction 
was on 40.

73 and good luck,

Roger (K8RI)

>
> As you can probably tell, I am not super familiar with towers having
> always had fixed wire antennas and now starting a project to put up
> three towers. I have climbed several but installed none.
>
> I appreciate the time respondents have taken to comment. When you know
> as little as I do about tower interactions anything I learn is a big
> percentage of gain.
>
> 73,
>
> Patrick AF5CK
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: George Dubovsky
> Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 5:09 PM
> To: Patrick Greenlee
> Cc: towertalk
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Non resonant guy considerations
>
> On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 5:23 PM, Patrick Greenlee
> <patrick_g at windstream.net>wrote:
>
>> I think I got it... Phillystran (or other non nonconductor good... steel
>> bad...
>>
>
> That's a gross oversimplification. There's applications for both of them. I
> have 3 towers; two are guyed with EHS, broken up with insulators, and the
> third - a rotating tower - is mostly guyed with Philly. I used the
> non-conducting guys because I have stacks for 10, 15 and 20 side-mounted on
> that tower and the possible complications called for Phillystran - it was
> simpler to go non-conductive than to do the modeling.
>
> One of the other 2 towers is mostly used for a 40 stack and a simple 80
> meter wire. I can detect no guy wire interaction with the top, rotating 40,
> and I have always presumed that meant that the lower, side-mounted (fixed)
> 40 was also not affected, but I could be wrong. The array works FB, so I
> don't feel the need to investigate further.
>
> The third antenna is a base-insulated, full-size 160 vertical and it's
> installation is probably typical of most every other 160 Rohn 25 vertical,
> that is, it looks like a broadcast stick - EHS broken up with insulators.
>
> It might be instructive to visit a few guyed towers used in the VHF/UHF
> land mobile world and also some guyed cell towers, if you can still find
> any of those. I have spent a lot of time working at 2-way sites and I can't
> recall any of them guyed with anything other than steel - and NO
> insulators.
>
> One final observation, perhaps important if you do your own climbing: A
> tall tower guyed with Philly definitely moves more than the same tower
> guyed with EHS, so it will feel different in your gut when you're working
> up there. Spend some time on K7NV.com to get a feel for the "stretchiness"
> of Philly and the corresponding changes in the forces at the base of a
> guyed tower.
>
> Horses for courses, as they say...
>
> 73,
>
> geo - n4ua
>
>>
>> Anyone with a reasoned opinion re my question regarding VHF and UHF
>> antennas on a tower?  At some point breaking the guys into non resonant
>> lengths becomes nearly impossible as wavelength gets shorter and
>> shorter. I
>> wonder about at what freq it is no longer needed?
>>
>> Patrick AF5CK
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Jim W7RY
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 10:00 PM
>> To: Crownhaven ; towertalk at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Non resonant guy considerations
>>
>>  I don't think I would ever use steel guy wires again.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>  Steve, N4JQQ
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>> I absolutely agree!!
>>
>> 73
>> Jim W7RY
>>
>>
>> On 4/30/2013 4:50 PM, Patrick Greenlee wrote:
>>
>>> From: Steve MIller
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:52 PM
>>> To: Patrick Greenlee
>>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Non resonant guy considerations
>>>
>>> Patrick,
>>>
>>>        I don't think I would worry much about it.   I'm sure opinions
>>> differ but try it without first and if everything plays well, go with
>>> it.
>>> If not, you can always break up the lines.   Lew Gordon did a study
>>> on hf
>>> and found that there was little difference between having the guys
>>> broken
>>> or one solid piece.   I have an 80' tower with no insulators.  My
>>> 2M5WL is
>>> 13' about that and I've had no problem working the "dx" --  here that
>>> basically means east coast though I have worked Wyoming, Texas, and New
>>> Mexico as well as Connecticut and other east coast stations on 2M.
>>> (I must
>>> admit that was a few years ago but little has changed on my tower
>>> since).
>>>  Steve N0SM
>>>
>>
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