[TowerTalk] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 130, Issue 44

Mon Oct 21 21:43:15 EDT 2013

I also have a HDX 589 with tilt plate (best thing since sliced-bread).
I put all my cables (4 ea. LMR400UF, 1 rotor cable, 1 cat5e (for IP camera)
and 1 siamese (18-2 for 24 VAC and RG59 for analog feed) all into black
"split-loom", like used in auto engine compartments for wire protection,
Hope this helps.
73
Ivan
WK1W

-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 9:08 PM
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 130, Issue 44

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: 80M Inverted V - CW and SSB (Jim Brown)
   2. Re: 80M Inverted V - CW and SSB (Bill Parry)
   3. Re: 80M Inverted V - CW and SSB (Earl Morse)
   4. Re: 80M Inverted V - CW and SSB (Herb Schoenbohm)
   5. Re: 80M Inverted V - CW and SSB (Dan Schaaf)
   6. Re: 80M Inverted V - CW and SSB (Jim Brown)
   7. Rotor Loop at the Top of a Crankup? (Steve Jones)
   8. Re: 80M Inverted V - CW and SSB (Richard Karlquist)
   9. 80/75 Vee (r miles)
  10. Re: 80M Inverted V - CW and SSB (Bryan Swadener)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:58:13 -0700
From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 80M Inverted V - CW and SSB
Message-ID: <52657945.8050300 at audiosystemsgroup.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 10/21/2013 11:46 AM, Richard Karlquist wrote:
> This makes sense for a dipole that is shorter
> than a half wave, where you need loading coils anyway.   I use
> switched capacitors with a full size inverted vee dipole (130 feet).
> The capacitors are only 1/4 inch square, way easier than coils.

Right. And I suspect there's a bit less loss in your caps than in the coils.

73, Jim K9YC

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 14:31:50 -0500
From: "Bill Parry" <bparry at rgv.rr.com>
To: <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>,	<towertalk at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 80M Inverted V - CW and SSB
Message-ID: <002c01cece94$311933e0$934b9ba0$@rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

I have been using the method that Jim mentions and it works very well and I
can work almost the entire 80 meter band. 

Bill W5VX

-----Original Message-----
From: TowerTalk [mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Brown
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 11:45 AM
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 80M Inverted V - CW and SSB

On 10/21/2013 2:50 AM, Doug Scribner wrote:
> I'd like to find a quick way to switch between the CW and Phone 
> portions
of the band.

There's an easy method to obtain a broadband match using transmission lines.
Carefully tune the antenna for 3675 kHz. Feed it with a half wave, or a full
wave, of 50 ohm line beginning at the antenna, then a quarter wave of 75 ohm
cable, then as much 50 ohm cable as you need to get to the shack. Measure
those lengths carefully as a stub at 3675 using something like a MFJ 259.
This will give you a match in the shack below 2:1 from 3500 to 3900. Make
that first 50 ohm length the least number of half waves that will still
reach the shack.  This method is shown in detail in a presentation I did
last year at Pacificon.

http://k9yc.com/PacificonSmithChart.pdf
<http://audiosystemsgroup.com/PacificonSmithChart.pdf>

73, Jim K9YC

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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 12:32:43 -0700
From: "Earl Morse" <kz8e at wt.net>
To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 80M Inverted V - CW and SSB
Message-ID: <20131021123243.98E28959 at m0005309.ppops.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On 10/21/2013 2:50 AM, Doug Scribner wrote:
> I'd like to find a quick way to switch between the CW and Phone portions
of the band.

Try the Coaxial Resonator Match (AI1H) dipole.  It has the double dip you
are looking for and covers almost the entire 80M band.  It is essentially an
electrically OCF dipole made with coaxial cable.  The coaxial cable makes up
the antenna and open/shorted stubs.  The rest of the antenna is just wire
and even though it is electrically OCF the physical feed point is in the
center of the antenna.

I have been using one for over 10 years and it plays well.  It is in some of
the handbooks/antenna books.  QST Apr 1989 and Antenna Compendium Vol 2.

Earl
N8SS

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 15:37:47 -0400
From: Herb Schoenbohm <herbs at vitelcom.net>
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 80M Inverted V - CW and SSB
Message-ID: <5265828B.1040106 at vitelcom.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

A fat fan dipole is really the way to go for simplicity if you are only
interested in 3.5 to 3.8 with a VSWR less than 1.5 to 1

Herb, KV4FZ

On 10/21/2013 2:58 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 10/21/2013 11:46 AM, Richard Karlquist wrote:
>> This makes sense for a dipole that is shorter
>> than a half wave, where you need loading coils anyway.   I use
>> switched capacitors with a full size inverted vee dipole (130 feet).
>> The capacitors are only 1/4 inch square, way easier than coils.
>
> Right. And I suspect there's a bit less loss in your caps than in the 
> coils.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 15:45:39 -0400
From: "Dan Schaaf" <dan-schaaf at att.net>
To: <herbs at vitelcom.net>,	<towertalk at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 80M Inverted V - CW and SSB
Message-ID: <7C9E3AB1E1364F1491059357130D436D at DanHPNOBSKA>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=response

ARRL has a broadband 80 meter dipole that was featured in QST. It is very 
very wide diameter cage instead of wire. I do not recall the bandwidth, but 
it was wide.  As I understand, you can increase bandwidth by increasing the 
diameter.

Best Regards
Dan Schaaf
=================================
K3ZXL www.k3zxl.com
60 Meters www.60metersonline.net
=================================

-----Original Message----- 
From: Herb Schoenbohm
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 3:37 PM
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 80M Inverted V - CW and SSB

A fat fan dipole is really the way to go for simplicity if you are only
interested in 3.5 to 3.8 with a VSWR less than 1.5 to 1

Herb, KV4FZ

On 10/21/2013 2:58 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 10/21/2013 11:46 AM, Richard Karlquist wrote:
>> This makes sense for a dipole that is shorter
>> than a half wave, where you need loading coils anyway.   I use
>> switched capacitors with a full size inverted vee dipole (130 feet).
>> The capacitors are only 1/4 inch square, way easier than coils.
>
> Right. And I suspect there's a bit less loss in your caps than in the 
> coils.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk

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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 13:30:45 -0700
From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 80M Inverted V - CW and SSB
Message-ID: <52658EF5.1090901 at audiosystemsgroup.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 10/21/2013 11:42 AM, larryjspammenot at teleport.com wrote:
> I want try this broadband 80/75-Meter dipole someday when I get some
support lines over a few of my tall fir tree branches.
>
> Originally in the April 1989 QST, reprinted in the NCCC
newsletter:http://www.nccc.cc/jug/2011/jug11jul.pdf

This is a good design for use as a center-supported inverted Vee, where 
there isn't much mechanical stress on it, but I wouldn't want to rig it 
as a high flat dipole between two trees. For that application, plain 
ordinary big copper using the transmission line matching I suggested is 
a far better way.  I use either #10 THHN (house wire) or #8 bare copper 
that I've stretched to make it hard drawn. The advantage of the latter 
is that it doesn't stretch any more.

Putting some numbers to it, I've got about 100# of pulling tension on 
the support ropes (in the form of pulleys and a 100# water jug filled 
with dry sand to adjust for trees swaying in the wind), and the dynamic 
stresses of a typical winter storm are much greater.  It costs me > $1K 
to get climbers to rig a pair of pulleys up in my tall trees with ropes 
through them and trim enough limbs to give the rope a path. The last 
thing I want to do is have to pay them to do it again when it breaks.

73, Jim K9YC

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 13:37:42 -0700
From: "Steve Jones" <n6sj at earthlink.net>
To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] Rotor Loop at the Top of a Crankup?
Message-ID: <000301cece9d$64af7210$2e0e5630$@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

All-

I am building a SteppIR DB42 on a TiltPlate on the ground, at the top of my
cranked down and tilted-over HDX-589.  

I now need to decide how to route the cables.  The bottom of the TiltPlate,
which has some sharp edges, is about 2 feet above the tower top.  I'm
thinking of leaving two or three 18" diameter coils of the coax and SteppIR
control cable wrapped around the mast, between the bottom of the TiltPlate
and the top of the tower as the rotor loop.  But I am concerned the cables
will drag along the three top corners of the flat tower top and be abraded
or even snag something.  I could put the cables inside a piece of garden
hose to protect them, but that wouldn't avoid the snagging problem.  It
almost seems like I need a flat disc just above the tower top for the loops
to lay on..?

Do you have any suggestions on how to dress the rotor loop to avoid having
it abrade on or snag the top of the tower?

73,

Steve Jones
N6SJ

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 13:59:25 -0700
From: Richard Karlquist <richard at karlquist.com>
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 80M Inverted V - CW and SSB
Message-ID: <026f6e0ed0b4613571cd7eeaab027258 at sonic.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

On 2013-10-21 11:47, Jim Brown wrote:

> trouble of designing and building the necessary hardware and running
> the control line. It has the additional advantage of no "excess

I had some extra wires in the control cable for the SteppIR Yagi
that is also on the tower, so that was easy.

Rick N6RK

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 20:11:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: r miles <greenacres113 at charter.net>
To: towertalk <towertalk at contesting.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] 80/75 Vee
Message-ID: <29ae56ba.91b3c.141dd803afa.Webtop.46 at charter.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

At the old QTH I simply  put the end insulators 3' from the end of the 
wire. I soldered an alligator clip on each end. Since I was mostly on CW 
on the low end the 3' wire just hung downward. When I wanted to chase 
something on 75 or contest time on SSB I'd lower the ends & clip the 
wire back on itself. Making it shorter for 75m. After useage I unclipped 
the ends & I was good to go.

Of course if you are gg back & forth a lot this can be  a pain. 
Especially if the WX isn't good.

K9IL

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 18:08:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bryan Swadener <bswadener at yahoo.com>
To: "towertalk at contesting.com" <towertalk at contesting.com>
Cc: "dscribner at myfairpoint.net" <dscribner at myfairpoint.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 80M Inverted V - CW and SSB
Message-ID:
	<1382404089.18593.YahooMailNeo at web160401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Hi Doug,
?
I use a 4-wire cage inverted vee that covers the?ENTIRE 80m?band quite
nicely.
There is a free program on smeter.net that can be used to design a cage
dipole. Mine (24" diameter)?supposedly has 316 KHz 2:1 VSWR BW but,
my reality is just about 500 KHz. I have the apex at 70 feet, and the
ends at around 35 feet AGL.
?
I cut mine a bit long, and it's very close to 1:1 at the low end of the
band.
At 4000 KHz, it's just barely 2:1.? I almost trimmed it but I don't spend a
lot
of time above 3900 KHz, so I left it as-is.
?
My spreaders are made from thinwall (lightweight) 1/2" PVC tubing + crosses
and I use 14 ga 168 strand?Flex-Weave copper wire (Davis RF).? I don't use
a balun because I drive the feedline as a vertical on 160m, using a SPDT 
vacuum relay at the bottom end of the feedline, just the other side of my
feedline ground buss.
?
Your mileage may vary.
?
vy 73,
Bryan WA7PRC

________________________________

Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 05:50:41 -0400
From: Doug Scribner
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: [TowerTalk] 80M Inverted V - CW and SSB

After completing my newest tower, 66 feet of Rohn 45,
I added an 80 Meter Inverted V @ 62 feet. 

I'd like to find a quick way to switch between the CW and
Phone portions of the band. I know I could just set it for
SSB and then add a short section to each leg for CW and
that works for dedicated contests but is a little inconvenient
for everyday use.

Short of using a tuner are there any suggestions?

TU...

Doug - K1ZO

------------------------------

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End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 130, Issue 44
******************************************