[TowerTalk] Territorial birds

Mon Sep 2 07:02:44 EDT 2013

Thanks Dan,

I very much appreciate this degree of detail.  You had not said that the 
surveyor who did your survey this time was the same surveyor who did the 
FWS' survey previously.  Also, the process they use would definitely get 
results if there were any results to get.

You must be very frustrated.  I would be to.  Is there any kind of appeal 
process?  That surveyor could make a very compelling argument for your 
position.

Mark, N5OT

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Schaaf" <dan-schaaf at att.net>
To: "Mark Beckwith" <r-emails at n5ot.com>; <towertalk at contesting.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Territorial birds

> Hi Mark
>
> I do understand a lot about the FL SJ habits since I have been forced by 
> this situation to learn about it. The interesting notes are that:
>
> 1) There are no scrub oaks within at least 1,000 ft. and the US FWS buffer 
> zone around suspect properties is specified to be 850 ft.
> 2) There were no birds heard/sighted within my 850 ft buffer zone by the 
> surveyor
> 3) The natural predator is the hawk and the hawk perches in high trees 
> with a good view of the ground. All of the properties in my buffer zone 
> are populated with Heritage Oaks that are huge and tall plus Brazillian 
> Pepper trees which the SJ just does not nest in plus thick vines in 
> between all other growth.
> 4) One area of my buffer that the FWS pointed to was a southerly direction 
> where there was a sighting in 2007 by the same surveyor that did my lot. 
> The surveyor indicated that the flight path of the bird was to exit the 
> region further to the south and totally away from my lot. Now, the FWS had 
> no problem accepting that data point in 2007 but will not accept a recent, 
> fresh data point 6 years later that indicates no birds.
>
> So, anyplace within 1,000 ft of my property is NOT quality SJ habitat. The 
> problem is that the FWS simply refuses to acknowledge that the survey is 
> negative and therefore the birds MUST be there without verifying the 
> survey, even by another independent surveyor.
>
> The method for finding birds is to playback a tape of the birds in a 
> certain pattern around the property out to 850 ft.  These birds are very 
> friendly and will come to you if they hear the recording. They will land 
> on your shoulder. They rarely fly much above 8 ft. height , maybe onto a 
> power line if they really need a bird's eye view.
>
> This process is repeated for 5 days from 1 hr after Sunrise to about 11 AM 
> due to air temps getting warm by 11 AM. Overall, it is a 30 hour process 
> for 5 days.
>
> It seems to me that if FWS was really concerned about the survival of 
> these birds, they would be putting in more effort to know where they are 
> nested and where they are NOT nested rather than just assuming. It is 
> easier to just sit back in their chair and just make blanket statements 
> based on old data and wait for retirement.
>
> I am an animal lover. I will not drive over the diamond back rattler in my 
> road and I stop driving to get out and move a gopher turtle out of the 
> road lest it get run over by some bonehead. These animals all have a 
> purpose on this earth and it is not my intention to upset that balance. 
> But anyone who lives here knows about the SJ situation and how ridiculous 
> the management of them has become.
>
> Best Regards
> Dan Schaaf
> =================================
> K3ZXL www.k3zxl.com
> 60 Meters www.60metersonline.net
> =================================
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> =================================
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Mark Beckwith
> Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 1:08 PM
> To: towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Territorial birds
>
> [Thread change alert - grew out of discussion of scrapping military tower
> trailers]
>
> Dan, with all respect, I think you might be confused on one point.
>
>> these are just sightings, not nests. The birds fly from the nest and back 
>> to it. They are very territorial.
>
> It reads like you are trying to make the argument that even though the
> Florida Scrub-Jays are seen, it does not necessarily mean their nests are
> nearby.
>
> What you may not know is that birds generally establish their "territory"
> (and defend it, i.e. "they are very territorial") as the buffer zone 
> around
> their nest.  They have to be close enough to respond quickly to any threat
> to the nest coming from any direction.  This means that if you see them,
> then, by definition, their nests *are* nearby.  Which I think is the US 
> Fish
> and Wildlife point.  I would say you are in a position with considerable
> downside potential, and if it were me I would be working on Plan B = sell
> the property to a bird lover who has $54K he's willing to invest in the
> future of Florida Scrub-Jays.
>
> Yes, I understand the survey you acquired concluded the birds were not
> nearby.  You're in a pissing contest with the federal government who 
> thinks
> their survey is better than your survey.  Good luck with that.  It is not
> fair.  You are absolutely right about that.
>
> I do very much appreciate how absurd it seems that they would take your 
> $54K
> and not use it in any way that you could see it, and still, as you say,
> allow you to then "bulldoze the nests."  That's almost as dumb as 
> scrapping
> perfectly good tower trailers.  The Endangered Species Act, which protects
> Florida Scrub-Jays, is not a perfect law (is there such a thing?) and is
> particularly infamous for being hijacked for political and societal 
> reasons
> like your case-in-point.  There is obviously enough oak scrub to support 
> the
> Florida Scrub-Jay population, especially if there are so few of the birds 
> as
> they claim.  Plus, trust me, the birds are smart enough to find it and 
> move.
> It's what they do.
>
> Full disclosure: I am a bird enthusiast who also has a bunch of towers, 
> but
> not in a state that is as environmentally overboard as Florida. Yes, the
> Endangered Species Act is a federal deal, but for some reason we don't 
> hear
> too much about it where I live.
>
> 73
> Mark, N5OT
>
> P.S. Sorry I took too many contrarian pills this morning by accident.
>
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