[TowerTalk] Climbing
ve5ra at sasktel.net
ve5ra at sasktel.net
Thu Oct 2 11:13:39 EDT 2014
Mike,
It's good to hear from people who are realistic and have common sense.
Free climbing has been around for thousands of years and will continue
for many more.
Some folks get all twisted and bent out of shape when free climbing is
done. Like all activities there are risks involved. To have one
death is unacceptable, but consider how many folks loose their lives
driving, or falling off ladders, or in aeroplane crashes, every day.
Yet these activities continue. Life is terminal. To end it
prematurely is unfortunate, however one does their best to survive in
this world.
I am talking about climbing towers under say 150 feet. I am not
talking about working on high steel or working on thousand foot towers.
I am much safer free climbing a secure tower than free climbing an
unsecured extension ladder. That ladder can wobble and slide to the
ground ... crash.
Free climbing should only be done by persons who:
Are in excellent physical shape.
Are not careless by nature.
Are not tired.
Are mentally focused.
Are not risk takers.
Are capable.
Are not in a rush.
Are experienced.
Knows their safety eqiupment.
Climb in suitable weather conditions.
IMO some of the safety regulations are practical and others
political. Some regulations appear to try and protect even the
incompetent and careless. If we have the climber gorilla hooked in
six different places with a full body harness tied off in ten different
spots and a parachute attached to his butt, there is no way this person
is going to fall and hurt themselves. IMO some of these regulations
are there to protect the regulators. They can say we did everything
possible to protect climbers so the responsibility is not ours. Sure
load the climber down with pounds and pounds of additional gear.
IMO some of the issues are caused by the climbing industry
themselves. Asking climbers to work in unsuitable weather conditions,
asking workers to hurry up, hiring workers that are careless by nature
and so on.
I am not recommending any climbing method. You know how I climb.
You do what is practicable and reasonable.
As I have said many times before "If you can't free climb, you
shouldn't be climbing at all".
Doug
On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 17:58:25 -0400, Mike via TowerTalk
<towertalk at contesting.com> wrote:
> Phew!...I just free climbed my tower,,,
> I took a ladder to the roof of my house and grabbed the ladder to my
> Sky Needle ,,,free climbed 10 feet to the crows nest and installed a
> new flag on the mast/flag raising setup I have on it between my
> Pro-67 and 6m beam...flag looks cool up at 85 feet with a solar flag
> light shining on it at night on my small city lot...but,,I flip a
> switch and up the tower goes..
> But...that 10 foot fall could kill me just as quick as a 100 foot
> fall if I hit right or bounced...off the roof to the ground...or if
> I was already dead on the way down...
> That being said...I have never climbed a 100 foot tower to do work
> and do not plan to..(I have to 40' W/out harness)...but I do know
> when the powers that be decided where I work that you need harnessed
> and tied off at anything over 6 feet.. ladders ..machinery ..bridge
> cranes etc. that being tied off became more dangerous then not,,,but
> you can't tell the clowns in the safety dept. that because they read
> somewhere that it was safe...and they are the ones that have never
> been a heels height AGL...tripping over lanyards...re hooking to
> places you can't reach and even climbing up to hook the main hook
> while fumbling with the second...the head safety dolt even bought us
> those fall breaking lanyards for when we work on an arc
> furnace...that when they were full out if falling were longer than
> the distance to the floor...definitely a safety engineer that's
> totally educated beyond his intelligence!..
> I know Iron workers,,construction workers,,,roofers etc,,,that all
> curse the new safety laws in NY when it comes to being tied
> off.....I believe it comes down to personal preference ..and in
> tower climbing when not employed by a company that forces you to be
> harnessed..and ins. premiums are paid up...do what you feel safest
> doing...not what others tell you to do...I ride Harleys...and in NY
> I wear a helmet because the laws say I have to (they know whats best
> for me)..but when I hit the PA line...off it comes....I have known
> of MC deaths here that were caused by the use of a helmet...you
> never hear of those!...
> I guess what I am saying...you can all argue here about what is the
> best thing to do...but I am gonna do whats best for me..what ever it
> is...(if possible)...as "they" say...s**t happens...when its your
> time to check out...its time to go...
> On a different note...might anyone be interested in my spare Telrex
> rotator?...I bought it as a spare a few years ago for the Sky
> Needle..I rebuilt mine with all new bearings..seals etc. and it
> should last me till I fall off my tower...and bounce...so I no
> longer need the spare...I would rather have the $$ to put into some
> upgrades to the shack...pics and price avail. upon request.
> 73,
> Mike W2GR
> ------------------
>
> In a message dated 9/30/2014 9:51:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> towertalk at contesting.com writes:
>
> I used to climb when I was younger. I have decided after reading
> all this,that if I ever decided to go full tower and could afford
> it, it
> will be a tiltover :) Cheers.
>
> Scotty W7PSK
>
>
>
> On Monday, September 29, 2014 11:48 PM, Roger (K8RI) on TT
> <K8RI-on-TowerTalk at tm.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 9/29/2014 11:10 PM, Jim Thomson wrote:
>
> Jim makes some excellence points:
>
> The point to remember is that at best, "Climbing is dangerous". That
> many, or most of us have climbed for years without injury does not
> make it safe.
>
> Safety gear can not protect a climber from injury from every
> possible mistake. The primary goal of fall arrest gear is to save
> your life and/or minimize injury, not to completely eliminate injury!
>
> If a climber falls, even wearing the best of available equipment,
> they are likely to get injured. "Fall arrest still brings you to an
> abrupt stop that is going to hurt even if you don't hit the tower
> with body parts., or take a bite out of a cross brace removing a few
> teeth in the process. Unlike many with the views of fall arrest, the
> fall to the end usually still offers very little time to react. It
> does slow the fall, but by how much varies and there may be very
> little time to react.
>
> Falling backwards can cause serious injury. Depending on the anchor
> point and muscle development it might break a climber's back,
> although I'd personally think a broken neck would be more likely.
>
> Never, ever think all that gear is going to keep you from getting
> hurt. It may, but if it does, that's pure luck. Plan for the worst
> and hope for the best.
>
> New climbers! NEVER FORGET "Tower climbing is one of the most
> dangerous jobs around. Before you start, you need to be in good
> physical shape. Like illness, a body in good physical shape and good
> health, resists injury better than an out of shape, unhealthy body
> and recovers much faster. Weight training, even toning is a good
> idea. Moreso for the week end climber than the guy who spends hours
> a day "up there". I was riding bike @ 20 MPH for 10 miles when over
> 60 and 2 years AFTER having a heart attack.. Over weight means you
> should reconsider climbing or at least use caution.
>
> Never climb alone. Always have a "Go-Fer" on the ground. Preferably
> one who can climb. It's tempting to make a short climb, but many
> unexpected things can happen. Strokes and heart attacks do not
> always give warnings. I've had both and I exercised regularly and
> tried to watch what I eat. Turns out I have A-Fib caused by a
> "slightly" enlarged Atrial chamber So slight it was not recognized
> for several years. Two strokes and a heart attack with no warning
> symptoms.
>
> After the first stroke my arteries were clean. 3 or 4 years later
> the main artery that feeds the heart muscle was over 98% blocked.
> (They call that the widow maker) Why the rapid change? Who knows? It
> turns out I'm allergic to Statins (anti cholesterol drugs) A
> reaction to them is painful and that's putting it mildly.
>
> The point is, no matter how good you feel and how good a shape you
> are in, you never know what will happen from moment to moment.
>
> For those getting ready to climb while still young and immortal,
> resist the urge and seek instruction.
>
> Like flying, climbing is very unforgiving of mistakes.
>
> 73
>
> Roger (K8RI)
>
> > Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 10:45:55 -0400
> > From: "Wilson" <infomet at embarqmail.com>
> > To: "towertalk" <towertalk at contesting.com>
> > Subject: [TowerTalk] Climbing
> >
> > Isn?t this topic about done?
> >
> > But a new question: I?ve never climbed much and never used a
> harness at all, but I have one now and will use it.
> > But isn?t the dorsal attachment of the fall arrest lanyard asking
> for trouble?
> > It seems to me that the usual lanyards are too long and that with
> the dorsal attachment they are very likely to snap tight and slam
> one?s face into the tower when the big stop occurs at the end of the
> fall?
> > It looks like a ventral attachment would be much less likely to
> produce secondary pain/injury, especially if one wore a helmet?
> >
> > Really, our towers and high work are pretty benign, as far as
> stress and danger go. The Russian kid did fine, but they weren?t
> even under sail!
> > For perspective, ask how many of us could survive this:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUhKBZb7A7c\
> > And for some instructive detail and depth, this is worth some
> time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7Q_SfMvSMw
> > OSHA would have put the sailing ships out of business, if their
> economics had not!
> >
> > If I ever have a tall tower, it will have the safety cable system,
> which I think is far superior to all that hooking and unhooking!
> > But I?m likely too old and lazy...
> >
> > 73,
> > Wilson
> > W4BOH
> >
> > ## yes, you will get your face and body slammed into the tower.
> What freaks me out are those corner climbing steel pegs you see on
> bigger towers.
> > You fall..and you get slammed into the tower....and a steel peg
> could easily end up in your face or eye..or both.
> >
> > ## No excuse for not installing the ..375 inch 7 strand ehs
> galvanized steel cable from top to bottom of any tower. Piece of
> cake to install.
> > Just like a guy wire hanging down the side of a tower. Use
> several cable clamps or 2-3 nicropress crimps or a pre-form dead
> end to terminate
> > the .275 inch cable. usual deal is to use the usual huge shackle
> or 1 inch bolt at the top.... or 2 for redundancy. I have yet to
> see any of those safety cable assy’s
> > made from SS. Then a simple turnbuckle and spring at the base
> to keep a bit of tension on the .375 inch cable.
> >
> > ## That simple safety cable system can easily be installed on any
> tower, guyed or freestanding.... and even a rotating tower. The
> problem is when
> > tic rings are used. Even then the safety cable can be installed
> between tic rings....starting and stopping at each ring. 2
> lanyards used to get over the ring,
> > then use the safety device to lock back into the next .375 inch
> safety cable.
> >
> > ## Our local pro installer has used both the safety cable system
> and also the Trylon safety rail system on various commercial
> towers. He tells me he like
> > the tylon rail system better. The rail system is also used on
> stuff like concrete water towers etc, etc.
> >
> > ## The cost of a simple safety cable system is peanuts. You
> wont shear a 1 inch bolt any time soon, nor a .375 inch cable. 1
> inch bolts are rated at
> > 20 k pounds...and ,375 inch cable is rated at 15,400 lbs.
> >
> > ## You don’t want to be on top of a trylon tower or any other
> tower that uses angle steel for diagonal bracing..... in the rain.
> They are like greased lightning,
> > and extremely dangerous.
> >
> > ## You don’t want to be up a tower when u get stung in the face
> or hands.... or cut urself, or get ur fingers pinched, smacked by a
> piece of steel, or boom, etc.
> > Ever install a 120 lb tic ring..in pieces... no fun.
> >
> > ## Commercial towers around here all use safety cables.... so
> should you. WCB makes em install em.... no free climbing allowed.
> Huge fines, folks terminated,
> > etc. Now if hams want to cheap out..go for it. One piece of
> .375 inch ehs cable running up the side of a tower cost dick.
> The device used to slide up and down the
> > cable is a few bucks..who cares.
> >
> > ## The easiest way to get hams to install the safety cable is
> simple. I wont climb up a fellow hams tower without one. Get the
> safety cable installed..or get somebody else to
> > climb the tower.
> >
> > end of story............... Jim VE7RF
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
> -- 73
>
> Roger (K8RI)
>
>
>
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