[TowerTalk] Grounding Multiple Buildings

Sun Sep 14 21:57:25 EDT 2014

I built my home myself here in Texas and even back when I started in 
1999/2000 little old Bandera Electrical Coop REQUIRED 4 wires for the 
electrical hookup and the neutral had to be as large a wire as the hot runs. 
I solved the branch electrical lines problem by installing a second full 200 
amp panel on its own service in my Garage/shop/shack and have the electrical 
service available for a third if I need it.  I recently ran a service line 
175 feet away to my sheep barns off the garage service and they required 4 
wires all the way to the barn.  It was painful to buy that much copper, but 
then hospital stays and insurance is expensive too.

Gary J
N5BAA
Little Old Center Point, TX

-----Original Message----- 
From: Randy
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2014 7:40 PM
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Grounding Multiple Buildings

Problems persist with "us" because of our very nature.
Anybody reading this hasn't managed to electrocute himself...
We're a deadly mixture of cheapskates and self-proclaimed experts.
Almost any of "us" could make something as seemingly elementary as this
"work"-- that's
what makes us valuable as emergency communicators...
The "problem" exists when we forget, or move, or walk away from some
seemingly "safe"
solution to a problem.
I got lit up pretty good, once upon a time, when I found out the hard
way that some idiot was
using the  EMT CONDUIT back to the box as a "neutral".
One of my brothers, a properly educated plumber, saw a big flash when he
cut through a 2"
water line in a building... an abandoned water line by everybody but the
electrician...something
mysteriously killed a bunch of computers in the building at that same
point in time...that's a
pretty fair amount of current going through something only to be used as
a "ground".

Somebody gave me a 1HP pump that I promptly hooked up to an abandoned
well in my yard.
Worked fine for about 2 days, then the long-ago abandoned wire shorted.
No, I did NOT follow my
cheapskate instincts and figure out if the short was between hot and
neutral, or hot and ground,
and just wiggle my way around the issue... I COULD HAVE found some cheap
way around the issue,
but, the hardest thing to troubleshoot is some jackass that took the
easy way out... and I can't be
sure the next guy won't get cooked trying to figure out what I did...

73
Randy
KZ4RV

On 9/14/2014 5:56 AM, Jim Thomson wrote:
> Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 18:26:13 -0700
> From: Bill Turner <dezrat at outlook.com>
> To: Towertalk <towertalk at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Grounding Multiple Buildings
> Message-ID: <BLU436-SMTP128B560C5A6AFC544667360C0CB0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> ------------ ORIGINAL MESSAGE ------------(may be snipped)
>
> On Sat, 13 Sep 2014 16:22:23 -0700, k9yc wrote:
>
>> This afternoon, I pulled out my 2002 copy of NEC and found the section
>> applicable to what we have been discussing. I suggest that those who
>> rail at my stupidity and tell me how wrong I am do the same.
> REPLY:
>
> Anyone who digs up an obsolete copy of something to prove that he has
> the "right" to create a safety hazard has a larger problem than we can
> help with here.
>
> 73, Bill W6WRT
>
> ##  Agreed.  It baffles me why the code allowed for NO grnd conductor 
> between building ..
> back in 2010..that is fubar.  Why the 4 wire code in 2011, when everyone 
> else had it eons b4.
>
> ##  here we cant even buy electrical cable that does not include a ground 
> wire.
> Its been like that at least as far back as 1960, here in VE7 land.
>
> ##  In fact, the ground wire is not included in the conductor count in any 
> cable.
> What electricians call  2 wire, consists of  2 conductors...plus a ground.
> Whats called 3 wire cable is  3 conductors  plus the ground... 4 x wires 
> in all.
>
> ##  I wonder if 4 wire was cable was available  to K9YC back in 2010, when
> he installed his  3 wire sub feed ??   If it was,  it would have been 
> prudent to have bought
> and used it.
>
> ##  will the electrical code allow him to install a  separate ground wire 
> between buildings,
> then REMOVE the grounded  neutral  in his sub panel ?   That would be the 
> easy fix.
> If not, I would suggest to rip the 3 wire cable out....and do it right 
> this time...and install
> the requisite  4 wire cable.   Then the neutral in the sub panel is not 
> grounded.   Then
> all fault current flows through the grnd wire...back to the main 200A 
> panel.
>
> ## what you need to do is..... upgrade it such that it meets the current 
> 2014 code.
>
> Jim   VE7RF
>
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