[TowerTalk] [Bulk] Re: Guying a vertical...???

Mon Aug 31 18:10:35 EDT 2015

I've mentioned before about using nylon guyed verticals in 40 meter 
phased arrays back in the 60s and 70s..  I never though to photograph 
them, but if we had some wind right after they went up, they would be 
laying down the next morning.  I just stood them back up and tightened 
the guys.  More wind and they would develop a drastic lean making them 
non functional even if they weren't flat. After several days, most of 
the stretch was gone, but the Nylon rope had taken on a whole new set of 
characteristics. It was now, stiff, dull colored, and rough.  All nylon 
lines did this whether subjected to the extremes of guying the 
verticals, or the end lines for wire antennas.  It happened with line 
just coiled up and left on a trailer outside, but the lower layers (more 
protected) kept the original characteristics longer.  IR?  Rain? 
temperature changes?  Don't know, but nylon made a very poor guy line

They were handy for field day, but you basically had to retention those 
lines every hour or two.  As others have said, early on the stuff was 
like a rubber band.   The double braid Dacron has little stretch, lasts 
for years, and it's cheap.

Phillystran is better, but costs a lot more.  All the guys on my 100' 
45G are Phillystran.

73

Roger (K8RI)

On 8/31/2015 5:12 PM, Grant Saviers wrote:
> As a many year sailor and power boater, Patrick's advice is right on. 
> In fact there are web posts of nylon guyed structures on the ground 
> with intact guys nylon attached.  Nylon will stretch well more than 
> 30% before breaking and has considerable stretch at 10% of break 
> strength.  (do the trig for guys!)  The amount of energy stored in a 
> tensioned nylon rope is awesome, as I saw a 1 1/2" hawser break under 
> load.  Folks have lost fingers when nylon rope was used in a tug of 
> war and broke and much worse has happened to deck hands hit with the 
> recoil of a breaking tow line.
>
> The Synthetic Textiles lines are great, I used 1000's of ft over the 
> past 30 years.  Usually they wear out at some rub point, I not seen a 
> UV failure.
>
> If you need more capacity than the 5/16" from S.T. then look at West 
> Marine and other chandlers for low stretch lines, usually available to 
> 5/8" and larger.  The really good Kevlar and better stuff ($$$) 
> stretches less than steel wire rope.
>
> btw line for gin poles is better in low stretch since for tall towers 
> the load can get to bouncing around on nylon.
>
> Grant KZ1W
>
> On 8/31/2015 13:26 PM, Patrick Greenlee wrote:
>> Nylon is used on boats because it stretches like a rubber band and 
>> when used for an anchor line does not transmit much shock to the deck 
>> hardware.  For hoisting sails (halyards) and for sheets (lines used 
>> to control sails) Dacron is used for its minimal stretch (desirable 
>> characteristic.) Steel cables (wire ropes) are sometimes spliced to 
>> rope "tails" for better manual handling characteristics and the rope 
>> of choice is Dacron.
>>
>> Nylon is useful for towing a boat because of it stretchiness not 
>> putting shock loads on deck hardware.  Great heat is generated by 
>> inter-fiber friction when the nylon is stretched and when wet the 
>> nylon shows its heat by copious quantities of steam. Failure to let 
>> the tow rope contact the water for cooling purposes can result in 
>> melting the nylon rope leading to catastrophic failure.
>>
>> I have considerable experience as a rag sailor and 10 years in 
>> maritime search and rescue. I advise folks wanting rope for guys to 
>> avoid nylon if it will be loaded such that it stretches and recovers 
>> as in variable wind.  Dacron is a far better choice.
>>
>> Patrick        NJ5G
>>
>> On 8/31/2015 12:08 PM, Bryan Swadener via TowerTalk wrote:
>>> In other words, "double-braided Nylon" rope.The Nylon material does 
>>> well with UV.The double-braided construction is bestto limit 
>>> stretch. It is used a lot on sailboats.You'll find it in a marine 
>>> supply store.McMaster-Carr sells it as well.
>>> I've used it for decades to support wire andvertical antennas.
>>> vy 73 es gl,Bryan WA7PRC
>>>
>>>
>>>        > In a message dated 8/30/2015 8:11:33 A.M. Central Daylight 
>>> Time,
>>>> co8dm at frcuba.co.cu writes:
>>>>
>>>>      I am trying to get the "550 Paracord"...it is not available here
>>>>      but will
>>>>      see what i can do to get it...
>>>>
>>>>      I read/hear many people used in verticals and it is strong and UV
>>>>      resistant
>>>>      and very cheap compare with Dacron and Kevlar.
>>>>
>>>>      I have looking on ground, water and air here and it is not
>>>>      available...unbelievable but it is the true !!!
>>>>
>>>>      73....Douglas, CO8DM
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-- 

73

Roger (K8RI)

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