[TowerTalk] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 156, Issue 23
Bill Hein
bill.aa7xt at gmail.com
Sun Dec 6 10:10:45 EST 2015
We (Justin G0KSC and myself) acquired Force 12 in November 2013 and have a
pretty good archive of manuals and other F12 documents in PDF and other
digital formats, about 40-GB worth. Hardly a day goes by that I don't email
a manual to someone rebuilding a Force 12 antenna that they purchased used,
have taken down for periodic maintenance, etc. We are happy to do this - we
love helping keeping Force 12's classic antennas on the air!
As far as I can tell there is no such animal as a C-3XL. There was a C-4XL,
which was C-3 tribander with an EF-240S 2-element 40m linear-loaded Yagi
interlaced on one boom. All versions of C-3 plus 40m (all C-3 variations
and with one or two 40m elements) had separate feeds for the tribander cell
and the 40m section. The boom length of the C-4XL was 23.8-feet. The C-4XL
is now longer in production having been superseded by models that offer
superior 40m performance from a similar sized 4-band Yagi. We do still
supply documentation on request at no charge and sell parts for the C-4XL -
and pretty much all other - Force 12 antennas made over the last 24 years.
The antenna question is likely a C-31XL, which is a very popular Force 12
model and still in production. It's boom length is 31 feet hence the '31'
in the name. There are lots of these around and its particularly popular
with contesters. It can operate with three separate feedlines or a single
feedline. The C-31XL manual is available on request from me -
Bill at Force12inc.com or tel 970 628 5120.
73
Bill AA7XT
Force 12 / InnovAntennas America
BIll AA7XT
Glade Park CO
DM59pa
On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 at 7:35 AM, <towertalk-request at contesting.com> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: tower spacing (john at kk9a.com)
> 2. Re: Time for a Real Tower Question TX-489 (K6OK)
> 3. Re: Oil For Dummy Load (Roger (K8RI) on TT)
> 4. Re: Force 12 c3 xl (Larry)
> 5. Re: Force 12 c3 xl (Pete Smith N4ZR)
> 6. Force 12 c3 xl (Richard Vincent)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 03:06:57 -0000
> From: <john at kk9a.com>
> To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] tower spacing
> Message-ID: <000601d12fd3$2b85f7e0$8291e7a0$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> There is no simple answer. Modeling can show interaction with antennas
> hundreds of feet away. Typically interaction is not very bad and if you can
> avoid beaming though a tower for your popular directions it should be
> minimal. Horizontal antennas typically do not see the other tower just the
> antennas but your VHF/UHF beams may be effected by the tower also if
> vertically polarized.
>
> John KK9A
>
> To: TowerTalk at contesting.com
> Subject: [TowerTalk] tower spacing
> From: w5jmw at towerfarm.net
> Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2015 14:24:30 -0600
> List-post: <towertalk at contesting.com">mailto:towertalk at contesting.com
> >
> I have a hdx 555 and a ndx 455.I will be using one for hf and the other for
> vhf/uhf.My question is how close can they be to each other? I realize they
> should be as far apart as possible buton a lot and for the coax runs
> etc..what is a good distance? thanjks all w5jmw john
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2015 20:32:50 -0800
> From: K6OK <jvarn359 at googlemail.com>
> To: towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Time for a Real Tower Question TX-489
> Message-ID:
> <CANx7EtYDokKYws5qdbSqPxmWEmwUKy4iB3ipg=
> SKUccP3RcgwA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> TIA-222-G is silent on crankups. If any city or county won't accept a
> retracted crankup as meeting code they are within their rights to do so
> because there's no law, regulation or code to point to that says otherwise.
> OTOH some local agencies prefer crankups. The lack of guidance in 222-G
> causes this wide variation of acceptance, as you unfortunately experienced.
>
> 73 Jim K6OK
>
>
> W3AHL wrote:
> >> I live near Wilson, but in another county in NC, where they won?t even
> consider
> a permit based upon the condition that a tower would be retracted during a
> storm.<<
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 00:31:41 -0500
> From: "Roger (K8RI) on TT" <K8RI-on-TowerTalk at tm.net>
> To: towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Oil For Dummy Load
> Message-ID: <5663C83D.70508 at tm.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> True as far as it goes. Specific heat s based on mass, where volumetric
> gives different answers. Like using a Hydrogen torch. It has a
> relatively low flame temp, but because you can get so much of it through
> a small tip, there are a lot of clean BTUs. As far as useful liquids,
> alcohol beats water, but requires a lot of extra precautions.
>
> Too many HTML tags to sort through below.
>
> 73
>
> Roger (K8RI)
>
>
> On 12/5/2015 12:55 PM, Patrick Greenlee wrote:
> > *Some common specific heats and heat capacities:*
> > Substance S (J/g0C) C (J/0C) for 100 g
> > Air 1.01 101
> > Aluminum 0.902 90.2
> > Copper 0.385 38.5
> > Gold 0.129 12.9
> > Iron 0.450 45.0
> > Mercury 0.140 14.0
> > NaCl 0.864 86.4
> > Ice 2..03 203
> > Water 4.179 417.9
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *List of orders of magnitude forspecific heat capacity
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_heat_capacity>*SI prefix
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI_prefix> Factor Value J
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule>?kg
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram>^?1 ?K
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvin>^?1 Item
> > deca <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deca-> 10^1 94 Radon
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radon>
> > hecto <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecto> 10^2 120 Uranium
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium>
> > 129 Gold <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold>
> > 130 Iridium <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iridium>
> > Osmium <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmium>
> > 139 Mercury <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_%28element%29>
> > 145 Iodine <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine>
> > 158 Xenon <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon>
> > 240 Caesium <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesium>
> > 246 Ethanol <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol>
> > 248 Krypton <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krypton>
> > 363 Rubidium <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubidium>
> > 377.48 Brass <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass>
> > 385 Copper <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper>
> > 420 Cobalt <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt>
> > 444 Iron <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron>
> > 480 Bromine <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromine>
> > Chlorine <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine>
> > 502 Diamond <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond>
> > 520 Argon <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argon>
> > 677 Glass <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass>
> > 720 Graphite <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite>
> > 757 Potassium <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium>
> > 824 Fluorine <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorine>
> > 900 Aluminium <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium>
> > kilo <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilo-> 10^3 1030 Neon
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon>
> > 1230 Sodium <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium>
> > 1660 Pentane <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentane>
> > ? 2000 Oil <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil>
> > 2060 Ice <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice>(0?C)
> > 2100 Coconut oil <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coconut_oil>
> > 3582 Lithium <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium>
> > 3767 Heavy water <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_water>
> > 4186 Water <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water>
> > 4700 Ammonia <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia>(liquid)
> > 5193 Helium <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium>
> > 10^4 14304 Hydrogen <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen>
> >
> >
> > Roger, please give a couple examples of things with higher specific
> > heat (heat capacity) than water that are practical for using in
> > conjunction with a DL by typical hams.
> >
> > While I would never use water to fill a cantenna, a DL with provision
> > for liquid coolant could do well with water as the heat transfer
> > liquid. Of the commonly available substances in my limited experience
> > only liquid ammonia (as used in old time refrigeration systems) would
> > do better but I HATE AMMONIA so would not go there personally.
> >
> > Patrick NJ5G
> >
> > On 12/5/2015 12:00 AM, Roger (K8RI) on TT wrote:
> >> one point:
> >>
> >> Water does not have high heat capacity, but it's great for
> >> transferring heat. 1 calorie will heat 1 cc of water 1 deg.
> >> Heat capacity and the ability are quite different.
> >>
> >> 73
> >>
> >> Roger (K8RI)
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
> --
>
> 73
>
> Roger (K8RI)
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 08:58:03 -0500
> From: "Larry" <lknain at nc.rr.com>
> To: <towertalk at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Force 12 c3 xl
> Message-ID: <0FFB95AED1B242E6B9301F80B07AF9DB at XV2W>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> I had a relatively early C3XL but it did not have a hairpin match. It had
> the DE's tied together and a single feed. Only a very vague recollection
> but
> I think the first ones did have separate feed lines.
>
> 73, Larry W6NWS
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Vincent
> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2015 10:55 PM
> To: towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Force 12 c3 xl
>
> I have what I believe is a c3 xl that belonged to an Elmer of mine who is
> now SK. This beam is of 1994- 1995 vintage and is in excellent condition.
> It
> has a 33feet boom, 10 elements, separate feeds for 10, 15, and 20, and
> hairpin matches. Does anyone out there in ham land have an assembly manual
> for this antenna?
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2015 09:06:16 -0500
> From: Pete Smith N4ZR <n4zr at contesting.com>
> To: towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Force 12 c3 xl
> Message-ID: <566440D8.1020606 at contesting.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> FWIW, the similarly-sized C-31XL could be fed either at one feedpoint or
> three. There was a guy in 5B4 who used the separately-fed driver setup
> for SO2R. Sounded dicey to me!
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Download the new N1MM Logger+ at
> <http://N1MM.hamdocs.com>. Check
> out the Reverse Beacon Network at
> <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
> spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
>
> On 12/6/2015 8:58 AM, Larry wrote:
> > I had a relatively early C3XL but it did not have a hairpin match. It
> > had the DE's tied together and a single feed. Only a very vague
> > recollection but I think the first ones did have separate feed lines.
> >
> > 73, Larry W6NWS
> >
> > -----Original Message----- From: Richard Vincent
> > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2015 10:55 PM
> > To: towertalk at contesting.com
> > Subject: [TowerTalk] Force 12 c3 xl
> >
> > I have what I believe is a c3 xl that belonged to an Elmer of mine who
> > is now SK. This beam is of 1994- 1995 vintage and is in excellent
> > condition. It has a 33feet boom, 10 elements, separate feeds for 10,
> > 15, and 20, and hairpin matches. Does anyone out there in ham land
> > have an assembly manual for this antenna?
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > TowerTalk at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 06 Dec 2015 09:35:33 -0500
> From: Richard Vincent <rickv11 at frontier.com>
> To: "towertalk at contesting com" <towertalk at contesting.com>
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Force 12 c3 xl
> Message-ID: <sdcv6pguv7q2u4ykn9ih4kkn.1449412533232 at email.android.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Thanks everyone for the replies. I tried contacting Force 12 but was told
> they don't have any records that old. I have also sent Tom an email but
> never got a reply, I may have gotten the wrong email and will try again.
>
> I put this beam up for my Elmer when he bought it. It was on top of a 82
> foot crank up with a 2 element 40 meter and an 80 rotatable dipole. These
> antennas were up about a year and a half when he moved to a new QTH. At the
> new QTH he decided on 2 towers and instead of using this antenna he went
> with stacked mono handers. This triband has been bundled up in a shed since.
>
> My biggest concern putting this back up is the hairpin. They are soft
> aluminium tubing that have been straightened out for storage. I am assuming
> the longest is for 20, next for 15, etc. What about the shape of the
> hairpin, shorter with wide spacing, or longer with narrow spacing?
>
> I plan on putting this on top of 80-90 feet of Rohn 45 with a 6 and 2
> meter beams on top. I weighed the bundles and it totaled right at 80
> pounds. I would also like to know the wind load specs. I have a Yaesu 1000
> rotator but also wondering if it will be hefty enough.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 156, Issue 23
> ******************************************
>
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