[TowerTalk] [DILLO] Re: New Proposed Texas Tower Regulation

Gary J - N5BAA qltfnish at omniglobal.net
Sun Feb 8 16:09:29 EST 2015


A number of members of our Ham Club are requesting a meeting with our State 
Rep (Rep Murr) tomorrow to get clarification on this subject regulation/law. 
We are also elevating it up to ARRL to have their legal people contact the 
legal people in Texas for a definitive ruling.  There needs to be a clear 
definition about Ham Radio Towers or guess what - many many 2M repeater 
towers around the state which are not located near QTH's will become 
headaches beyond comprehension.

Gary J
N5BAA

-----Original Message----- 
From: Paul Gilbert
Sent: Sunday, February 8, 2015 10:51 AM
To: dillo at armadillo.org
Cc: L L bahr ; towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] [DILLO] Re: New Proposed Texas Tower Regulation

As they say in the movie..... "Cabolaro"....Cowboy....

We have pilots in our group....

What are the regs covering this type of work.

Paul


On 2/8/15 10:41 AM, Wm5l wrote:
> I can only speak from limited experience about crop dusters. I grew up 
> farming cotton, corn, wheat and milo in Hill county in high school. We 
> used aircraft a lot to spray the crops. I knew one pilot that was killed 
> when showing off, doing stunts in his duster like flying below telephone 
> lines. They used to laugh and brag about coming back to the strip and 
> having Cotton boll's hung in the landing gear. Personally I am fascinated 
> by aviation but some of the antics displayed by some of these pilots are 
> insane! Just last year while living next to the airport in ElDorado, TX I 
> went over and spoke to one of the guys dusting one afternoon while he was 
> refilling his chemicals that he was spraying. I asked him why I never 
> heard him on 123.0 calling approach and departure on my scanner as it is 
> an uncontrolled airport. He stated "we don't ever do that we just do our 
> own thing". It would seem to me that some common sense or basic safety 
> practices might eliminate all this nonsense. Jim WM5L.
>
> Sent from Big Jim's iPhone
>
> On Feb 8, 2015, at 10:07, Mike Simpson - Midcom, Inc. <mike at midcom.org 
> <mailto:mike at midcom.org>> wrote:
>
>> Paul, I also find it somewhat  ironic and a bit amusing that the onus for 
>> rule implementation (and even enforcement?!?!) of this bill, should it 
>> become law…gets tossed right back in your very own department’s lap! 
>> Wonder if that will mean you personally, since you are their “go-to” 
>> comms guy!
>>
>> If so, your current “Army of one” will need some serious new manpower! J
>>
>> *From:*Paul Gilbert [mailto:ke5zw at wt.net]
>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 08, 2015 9:58 AM
>> *To:* dillo at armadillo.org <mailto:dillo at armadillo.org>; L L bahr
>> *Cc:* towertalk at contesting.com <mailto:towertalk at contesting.com>; 
>> Armadillo Mailing List
>> *Subject:* Re: [DILLO] Re: [TowerTalk] New Proposed Texas Tower 
>> Regulation
>>
>> We had a 35 foot wooden telephone pole at the office in Anauhac. It use 
>> to have a lowband ant and a VHF DB264 on it. I had to do a FAA 
>> determination and then circularize it for approve at 45 feet due to the 
>> proximity to the local airfield.
>>
>> Even without the antennas, the FAA wanted a "steady burning red light" on 
>> it.
>>
>> We built a tower in Winnie and removed the pole.
>>
>> However, this bill really has nothing to do with the FAA jurisdiction.
>>
>> In fact the FAA told the crop dusters, that the towers are legal under 
>> their rules and nothing else could be done by the FAA
>>
>> Interesting fact, the tower owners COULD voluntarily paint and light the 
>> towers.
>>
>> Mostly what the dusters are after are the meteorology towers located in 
>> wind farms which are often located in crop fields.
>>
>> Drive around West Texas, you will see them everywhere.
>>
>> But if you paint and light voluntarily, from that day on you are required 
>> to do so just as if you were mandated to do so.
>>
>> Now this bill proposes to create a state level of mandated marking and 
>> painting (interesting they did not include lighting, but I guess crop 
>> dusters do not fly at night) to towers that the FAA will not extend 
>> mandated marking to.
>>
>> It seems to me this is overreach by state rule into a federal rule 
>> area...among other issues.
>>
>> I also thought crop dusters had certain procedures they had to follow 
>> before dusting a field....like go look at it for obstructions and have 
>> spotters?
>>
>> Paul,ZW
>>
>> On 2/8/15 8:50 AM, Joe Jarrett wrote:
>>
>>     To further this discussion, even a relatively short  tower at
>>     a residence could be at an illegal height.  It has to do with how
>>     close you are to an airport.  Do you know how close your nearest
>>     airport is?  I bet you don't.
>>
>>     There is a test available on the Internet called Towair. Google
>>     Tow air, enter a lat and long and a tower height and the software
>>     will tell you if your tower is legal.
>>
>>     For example, I ran a 40 foot tower in Lakeway about 200 yards
>>     back into where all the houses are.  Towair told me that such a
>>     tower would require registration with the FAA and might require
>>     lighting.  Some of the houses there are close to 40 ft high!
>>
>>     Joe Jarrett
>>
>>     Texas State APCO Frequency Coordinator
>>
>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>
>>         *From:*Mark Stennett <mailto:Mark at stennett.com>
>>
>>         *To:*Kim Elmore <mailto:cw_de_n5op at sbcglobal.net> ; L L bahr
>>         <mailto:pulsarxp at embarqmail.com>
>>
>>         *Cc:*towertalk at contesting.com <mailto:towertalk at contesting.com>
>>
>>         *Sent:*Saturday, February 07, 2015 10:38 PM
>>
>>         *Subject:*[DILLO] Re: [TowerTalk] New Proposed Texas Tower
>>         Regulation
>>
>>         No tower is exempt from FAA siting requirements, regardless
>>         of height. You wouldn't put a 10 foot tower at the base of a
>>         runway, would you? All structures, permanent or temporary
>>         have to pass a number of FAA tests, including slope. Until
>>         recentl, I worked in broadcast radio doing engineering work
>>         for the last 30 years, 20 of those on a corporate level. We
>>         acquired a radio station once that had a studio microwave
>>         tower that was 60 foot tall. Even though it was at least 10
>>         feet shorter than the surrounding tree line, it was required
>>         to bear an Antenna Structure Registration Number and be top
>>         lit due to proximity to a local airport. It did not pass the
>>         slope test.
>>
>>         This is a very sloppy bill. It would be far easier to
>>         leverage the FAA to tighten up the temporary structure rules
>>         than to try to make these guys tower experts. The tail is
>>         trying to wag the dog here.
>>
>> 
>> https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/gisTools/gisAction.jsp?action=showNoNoticeRequiredToolForm
>>
>>
>>         73 de na6m
>>
>>         -----Original Message-----
>>         From: Kim Elmore <cw_de_n5op at sbcglobal.net>
>>         <mailto:cw_de_n5op at sbcglobal.net>
>>         To: L L bahr <pulsarxp at embarqmail.com>
>>         <mailto:pulsarxp at embarqmail.com>
>>         Cc: "towertalk at contesting.com"
>>         <mailto:towertalk at contesting.com> <towertalk at contesting.com>
>>         <mailto:towertalk at contesting.com>
>>         Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2015 12:30:54 -0600
>>         Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] New Proposed Texas Tower Regulation
>>
>>         This comes directly from wind observing towers for wind farm
>>         siting. They are all under 300' tell and do not subject to
>>         FAA obstruction marking requirements. These are erected
>>         essentially overnight and several aerial applicators have run
>>         into them because they have no obstruction lighting or markings.
>>
>>         The curtiledge languages essentially exempts almost all of us.
>>
>>         Kim N5OP
>>
>>         "People that make music together cannot be enemies, at least
>>         as long as the music lasts." -- Paul Hindemith
>>
>>         > On Feb 7, 2015, at 11:55, "L L bahr "
>>         <pulsarxp at embarqmail.com <mailto:pulsarxp%40embarqmail.com>>
>>         wrote:
>>         >
>>         > FYI
>>         > Lee, w0vt
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>> 
>> http://www.legis.state.tx.us/BillLookup/Text.aspx?LegSess=84R&Bill=HB946
>>
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > Please read and pass this to all Amateur Radio Operators
>>         who have towers. This “COULD” be detrimental to all of us.
>>         There are things I am not certain of that I would like
>>         answers to or to clarify so that we could write to our
>>         legislature to either kill this bill or more narrowly define
>>         it so that it is not “ALL INCLUSIVE” in nature. It is my
>>         understanding that the Crop Duster Association is behind this
>>         because some pilot either through stupidity or an accident
>>         killed himself by flying into an obstruction. (I have many
>>         times pulled off the road and watched these guys. Several
>>         times I have witnessed them doing stupid reckless maneuvers)
>>         While I am an advocate for safety and common sense, I do not
>>         think everyone should “PAY” for the actions of a very small
>>         few. If a bill like this must exist, it should define a
>>         specific distance around the “WORK/FLY ZONE” and not every
>>         tower in the state. We should write our representatives to
>>         kill or modify this bill.
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > SECTION 1.  Subchapter B, Chapter 21, Transportation Code
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > Section 21.071 (a) 1, 2, 3 clearly define “MOST” Amateur
>>         Radio towers.
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > Section 21.071 (b) 1, 2 “APPEAR” to exempt many Amateur
>>         Radio Towers BUT does it? What is  the State’s legal
>>         definition of “curtilage”?
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > Section 21.071 (e) 2, “APPEARS” to exempt Amateur Radio
>>         Operators as “a facility licensed by the Federal
>>         Communications Commission or any structure with the primary
>>         purpose of supporting telecommunications equipment” but then
>>         goes on to specifically define commercial radio service. The
>>         “and” seems to separate the two?
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > Section 21.071 (f) 1, 2 “REQUIRES” notice and registration.
>>         You know FEES and PERMITS will soon follow.
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > Section 21.071 (a), (b) appears to make it retroactive
>>         after September 1, 2016.
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > Are there any lawyers among us who could speak to this and
>>         guide us in writing a proper request to our representatives
>>         regarding this?
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > What are your thoughts?
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > Regards,
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > Larry Lowry
>>         >
>>         > Radio System Manager
>>         >
>>         > (936) 538-3770 Shop
>>         >
>>         > (936) 538-3711 Direct
>>         >
>>         > (936) 538-3775 Fax
>>         >
>>         > imagesWD5CFJ
>>         >
>>         > qrcode.17489151
>>         >
>>         > _______________________________________________
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
>

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