[TowerTalk] Change in Frequency with Height above Ground

[Hardy Landskov]

Dick,
I converted a 7 el 6mtr beam to a G0KSC LFA, reflector on a 13 ft flberglass ladder and tuned the DE. Worked very well. His loop fed arrays are so simple and easy to adjust I will not go back to a T-Match or Gamma.
73 Hardy N7RT

-----Original Message-----
From: TowerTalk [mailto:towertalk-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Richard Solomon
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2016 5:59 PM
To: towertalk
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Change in Frequency with Height above Ground

What ever happened to the old
method of standing it up vertical
with the reflector closest to the
ground ?

Is that method out of favor now ??

73, Dick, W1KSZ

On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Jim Thomson <jim.thom at telus.net> wrote:

> Date: Fri, 27 May 2016 08:40:28 -0700
> From: jimlux <jimlux at earthlink.net>
> To: towertalk at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Change in Frequency with Height above Ground
>
> On 5/27/16 8:05 AM, Jim Thomson wrote:
> > Date: Thu, 26 May 2016 20:37:09 -0700
> > From: Jim Brown <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
> > To: towertalk at contesting.com
> > Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Change in Frequency with Height above 
> > Ground
> >
> > On Thu,5/26/2016 8:24 PM, Don W7WLL wrote:
> >> Lowering the height of an antenna above ground, such as a beam, 
> >> will
> cause the resonant freq to decrease, increase?
> >
> > Decrease. But not always -- I have a 10M beam at about 15 ft that 
> > goes up! The variable here is mutual coupling between elements and 
> > between elements and ground.
> >
> > Another error in using SWR as the indicator of resonance is that 
> > feedpoint Z changes with height, and in a very complicated way (and 
> > because of mutual coupling to ground). In general, low dipoles (as a 
> > fraction of a wavelength) are lower Z, high dipoles are higher. AND 
> > -- feedpoint Z is also affected by the quality of the ground.
> >
> > SO -- we may THINK the resonance is affected by the height as 
> > indicated by the low value for SWR, but it's actually the feedpoint Z changing!
> >
> > 73, Jim K9YC
> >
> > ##  so why does  eznec  depict RESONANCE,  moving all over the  20m
> band, as height is varied
> > from 0-100 feet ??    ( this also depicts  3 x different ground condx).
>   http://s33.postimg.org/69rm0qscf/resonate2.png
> >
> > ##  f12  sez  to NOT  use a MFJ-259B   to measure resonance, but to
> instead use the freq of lowest  swr.
> > When tweaking 40m  REF  +  DIR..and also DE, no matching coil is used.
>  Ele tips  ( or loading)  is tweaked, till
> > the REF / DE  /DIR  is  resonated at whatever freq the manual 
> > /software
> sez it should resonate.   And that?s  done
> > by measuring each ele, one at a time, by measuring the freq of 
> > lowest
> swr.  Meanwhile the other els that are not being tweaked
> > will temp have their  centers  opened off.   IE:  shorting strap removed
> if a REF  or DIR,  matching coil + coax + balun removed if a DE.
> >
>
>
> Resonance is where the reactive component of the feedpoint Z is zero.
> Lowest SWR could be at some point where the the impedance happens to 
> work out closest.
>
> @@  That’s  what I thought.  Resonance =   zero reactance.   Perhaps it
> had something to
> do with the length of coax  from choke balun at  feedpoint ..... to
> MFJ-259B ??   Unless
> the coax jumper to MFJ-259B  had zero length, Z and R  could easily 
> shift about, depending
> on band, etc.   What might /should work is a double male connector
> between balun and MFJ ?
>
> @@  I went through this with F12 years ago, and they were adamant 
> about using the lowest swr freq
> as the resonance point.   Some of the junk baluns out at the time, would
> easily shift the resonance point
> by 100 khz on 40m...... IE: van gorden ‘baluns’.    The wire leads from
> balun to feedpoint will also lower the resonance  point.... but that 
> is moot, since most folks know the leads are a part of the ant.
>
> @@ so what is the correct method then ?
>
> Jim   VE7RF
>
>
>
>
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