[TowerTalk] US Tower price increase

Ed navydude1962 at yahoo.com
Tue Jan 3 00:12:30 EST 2017 

If you're remotely contemplating a UST, consider a LUSO for just a few dollars more!  

> On Jan 2, 2017, at 16:55, Wayne Kline <w3ea at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I think the 10 minutes is the welding time, surly not the set up " installing the pieces into the welding Jig "  and from my observation  only  the bottom and top area plates ( which would have the pillow block brackets pre welded on  ) are the only area which would require multiple  passes .
> 
> With big Arco or Miller Flux core  machines .... 10 min  would be on the low end  of time  But 30 to 35 min from raw pieces to  finished craned off unit more like it.
> 
> 
> Wayne W3EA
> 
> ________________________________
> From: TowerTalk <towertalk-bounces at contesting.com> on behalf of EZ Rhino <EZRhino at fastmovers.biz>
> Sent: Monday, January 2, 2017 6:44 PM
> To: Towertalk Reflector
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] US Tower price increase
> 
> Ten minutes huh?  I want to see that.   Send me a video.
> 
> Chris
> KF7P
> 
> 
> On Jan 2, 2017, at 16:26 , Kevin wrote:
> 
> Chris,
> 
> I used to do it for a living. I was certified to weld just about anything anywhere, except underwater.
> 
> They are NOT a start up. They've had all the tooling and "machinery" for many years now. ALL of their crank ups are a variation of 5 or 6  20' tower sections whose jigs were built years ago. I could probably weld one in 10 minutes, even with my poor eyesight and prosthetic leg.
> 
> Press brakes, CNC Plasma tables, CNC lathes, welders, etc...don't need replacing very often, if ever, given proper maintenance. We had a WWII turret lathe that still put out very good parts, maybe not CNC quality but good enough.
> 
> They're building towers not high performance engines or wrist watches.
> 
> Kinda funny that Tashjian hasn't raised their prices by a factor of three. They're 20 miles apart and probably have quite a few of the same suppliers.
> 
> They simply don't want to be in the amateur market any longer.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 1/2/2017 4:56 PM, EZ Rhino wrote:
>> Good points Jim.
>> 
>> I may also add that a lot of us (including myself, at times) are spoiled.  We clickety click click on line, and two days later a product is in our mailbox.  We no longer realize how things are manufactured or the time, energy and cost associated with producing a product.
>> 
>> Metal fabrication isn't an inexpensive or easy business to be in.  The machinery needed to fabricate a tower is expensive, er, I mean, EXPENSIVE! and HUGE!  CNC plasma tables, press brakes, welding equipment, CNC benders, jigs, fixturing tables, tooling, tooling, and more tooling, and qualified experienced operators of this machinery, and don't forget a huge building that can store all this stuff.  Metal fab is a slow process, lots of labor, and lots of trial and error to figure out how to make something that functions correctly.  Then you need to figure out the most economical way to mass produce the product with the least labor as possible.  It's not easy.
>> 
>> I am not excusing the price increases at UST, as they do sound out of line.  But I do think getting a new 50-foot crank up for $3k is a bargain!
>> 
>> Also watch the used market, where you can get a real deal on some used stuff.  I watched the classifieds like a hawk for almost a year, finally found a TriEx LM470 that was still horizontal, still partially crated, never installed, and got it for a song.
>> 
>> Chris
>> KF7P
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jan 2, 2017, at 15:43 , jimlux wrote:
>> 
>> On 1/2/17 11:38 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>> Great response, Jim. BUT -- the increase noted by the original poster
>>> was that the increase was overnight!
>>> 
>>> Several possible reasons for this. One is that business operations for
>>> the ham market are often supported by higher volume and higher margin
>>> operations for other markets. When those other markets fall apart, they
>>> no longer support the ham market, or contribute to economies of scale
>>> that allow lower prices.
>>> 
>>> Another is corporate mergers, which can change business priorities,
>>> change where products are manufactured.
>>> 
>>> But assuming corporate greed as the reason for all such price increases
>>> is unreasonable. It certainly can be, but there are many other reasons.
>>> 
>> yes, I agree.. usually it's a "it's not economic to sell at that price any more, compared to other products".  I was more commenting on the "back in 85" comment.
>> 
>> I know someone who is buying 50 tower trailers with 100+ ft towers on them. That's a much better sale proposition than onsie, twosie sales to individuals.  Whether through distribution or not, the support costs tend to be "per customer" not "per tower".
>> 
>> As for the overnight x3... That's a "we don't really want to be in this business" or "our cost structure radically changed" kind of increase.
>> 
>> I've also seen that when you have a business founder of a family operated business retires/sells out: the founder didn't have any debt service costs, was willing to live out whatever margin there was.  The new owner had to get a loan to buy the business and actually has to pay employees a wage and benefits - all of a sudden instead of "my wife does the assembly and we're on the same insurance" it's "I've got to pay a reasonable wage and provide vacation, insurance, etc.", I've got to pay rent and storage costs, I've got to pay for the "cost of money".
>> 
>> A similar phenomenon occurs when a partner retires/dies/leaves and the remaining partners have to buy them out.
>> 
>> Or, it's just - we don't want to leave existing customers totally in the lurch, but we can't subsidize them either - we'll be responsible and at least make parts available, but at cost that is basically "fabricate from scratch individually"
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> --
> R. Kevin Stover
> AC0H
> ARRL
> FISTS #11993
> SKCC #215
> NAQCC #3441
> 
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