[TowerTalk] LMR 600 UF options ? And HARD LINE IN GENERAL : DAVIS RF Digest, Vol 204, Issue 23

Tue Dec 24 13:48:49 EST 2019

HI,  RFS Cablewave Cellflex 7/8", or  1/2"  Heliax equivalent (equivalent attenuation and physically) is a much better , lower loss and highly cost effective alternative (LOWER COST) to LMR 600 or 600 UF.  Grant it, not as flex as 600 UF but will work well on most applications.  Note:  Min bend radius on LMR 600 is  6" but on the fairly close OD same ", the RFS 1/2" is only 3".   And the loss is slightly lower than LMR 600, across the useable spectrum .   We have the lowest prices of any ham dealer on LMR, Heliax (very expensive) and RFS Cablewave (a high quality, LOWER price, equivalent to Heliax).   Our mfr. Certified installers will install connectors for a nominal fee,  preserving the mfr. Warranty on cable and connectors.   All accessory parts of these 3 mfr's (like connectors, hangars, cable grounding, and much more ) also available from us  @ low prices.  Lastly, we get a lot of call for LMR 600, and we DOWN- SELL to RFS Cablewave 1/2" Cellflex , so as to save hams, and commercial,  $$... whereas we could make more $$ by just complying with their original request for LMR 600.   How do we do our low prices??:  we sell a LOT  to military and commercial, and I give my fellow hams the same price (One price up to 10,000 ft. then a further discount)   Steve,  K1PEK,  DAVIS RF, Snr. RF Cable Design Engr.

On 12/24/19, 12:00 PM, "TowerTalk on behalf of towertalk-request at contesting.com" <towertalk-bounces at contesting.com on behalf of towertalk-request at contesting.com> wrote:

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    Today's Topics:

       2. LMR 600 UF options ? (Robert Harmon)

       7. Re: LMR 600 UF options ? (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
       8. Re: LMR 600 UF options ? (Robert Harmon)
       9. Re: LMR 600 UF options ? (Grant Saviers)
      10. Re: Ham IV Stuck (Dave Hachadorian)

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Message: 2
    Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2019 14:47:17 -0800
    From: Robert Harmon <k6uj at pacbell.net>
    To: towertalk at contesting.com
    Subject: [TowerTalk] LMR 600 UF options ?
    Message-ID: <56700E5F-B30E-4B2C-A7E9-864685B791CE at pacbell.net>
    Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii

    I would like to use LMR-600 UF on my crank up tower all the way up to the antenna without a rotor loop.  From what I understand 
    the UF (ultraflex) has a stranded center conductor and would have the flexibility needed.   The only problem is that it has a TPE jaket 
    which is only good for 7 years or so.  The reguar LMR-600 has a  solid center condutor (aluminum/copper clad) not stranded, but
    has the good TP jacket like Bury Flex has.  

    I can't have the UF with TP jacket.  :-(   

    Any other options that you know of for a low loss feedline (like the LMR-600) that is flexible and has a good jacket ?

    Bob
    K6UJ

    ------------------------------

    Any ideas or assistance is much appreciated.

    ------------------------------

    This is why "low sidelobe antennas" are so hard to make.  Imagine an 
    antenna where the requirement is that the sidelobes be down -60dB.  The 
    proverbial gnat's eylash on the antenna will probably screw that up.

    It's also why almost all 3 element Yagis have about the same forward 
    gain - that's the easy parameter to optimize for.

    > Of course 200ft is not far away.
    > 
    > Will try the same with my Mid Tri when it is installed.
    > 
    > Ignacy, NO9E
    > _______________________________________________
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > _______________________________________________
    > TowerTalk mailing list
    > TowerTalk at contesting.com
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    ------------------------------

    >
    >
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    > _______________________________________________
    >

    ------------------------------

    Message: 7
    Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:21:17 -0800
    From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard at karlquist.com>
    To: Robert Harmon <k6uj at pacbell.net>, towertalk at contesting.com
    Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] LMR 600 UF options ?
    Message-ID: <d03e7b2f-d652-07dc-202a-76255f077fba at karlquist.com>
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

    On 12/23/2019 2:47 PM, Robert Harmon wrote:
    > I would like to use LMR-600 UF on my crank up tower all the way up to the antenna without a rotor loop.  From what I understand
    > the UF (ultraflex) has a stranded center conductor and would have the flexibility needed.   The only problem is that it has a TPE jaket
    > which is only good for 7 years or so.  The reguar LMR-600 has a  solid center condutor (aluminum/copper clad) not stranded, but
    > has the good TP jacket like Bury Flex has.
    > 
    > I can't have the UF with TP jacket.  :-(
    > 
    > Any other options that you know of for a low loss feedline (like the LMR-600) that is flexible and has a good jacket ?
    > 
    > 
    > Bob
    > K6UJ
    > 

    I don't completely understand your question, but what I
    use on my HDX-5106 is RG-218 to go to the top of the tower,
    and then a rotor loop consisting of a short section of Bury-Flex.
    The rotor loop is connected to the RG-218 with a rigid
    90 degree adapter.  It works for me.

    Rick N6RK

    ------------------------------

    Message: 8
    Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:49:43 -0800
    From: Robert Harmon <k6uj at pacbell.net>
    To: towertalk at contesting.com
    Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] LMR 600 UF options ?
    Message-ID: <D0FF4708-6350-42CF-9725-A24DD3A29ADD at pacbell.net>
    Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii

    Hi Rick,

    I want the low loss of LMR-600.  (.3dB /100ft on 14Mhz) 
    There are several choices.
    * Regular LMR-600  has a nice PE jacket but solid center conductor (aluminum/copperclad)  not that flexible. 
    * LMR-600 ultra flex which has a poor TPE jacket, but the center conducter is stranded copper, nice and flexible.

    I would like LMR-600 UF with a PE jacket but not available.

    I am planning to run 7/8"  hardline out to the top of the first section of my HDX589MDPL  (crank up tower) and then go with as low
    loss as I can find "flexible" coax from there on up to the antenna.  I thought with LMR-600 I may not need a separate rotor loop either.

    I will see if I can find loss info for RG-218 on 14Mhz    I found one table but it is for 50Mhz.  

    It would be a lot simpler if I didn't have a crank up tower hihi

    Bob
    K6UJ

    > On Dec 23, 2019, at 5:21 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist <richard at karlquist.com> wrote:
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > On 12/23/2019 2:47 PM, Robert Harmon wrote:
    >> I would like to use LMR-600 UF on my crank up tower all the way up to the antenna without a rotor loop.  From what I understand
    >> the UF (ultraflex) has a stranded center conductor and would have the flexibility needed.   The only problem is that it has a TPE jaket
    >> which is only good for 7 years or so.  The reguar LMR-600 has a  solid center condutor (aluminum/copper clad) not stranded, but
    >> has the good TP jacket like Bury Flex has.
    >> I can't have the UF with TP jacket.  :-(
    >> Any other options that you know of for a low loss feedline (like the LMR-600) that is flexible and has a good jacket ?
    >> Bob
    >> K6UJ
    > 
    > I don't completely understand your question, but what I
    > use on my HDX-5106 is RG-218 to go to the top of the tower,
    > and then a rotor loop consisting of a short section of Bury-Flex.
    > The rotor loop is connected to the RG-218 with a rigid
    > 90 degree adapter.  It works for me.
    > 
    > Rick N6RK
    > _______________________________________________
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > _______________________________________________
    > TowerTalk mailing list
    > TowerTalk at contesting.com
    > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk

    ------------------------------

    Message: 9
    Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2019 04:29:16 +0000
    From: Grant Saviers <grants2 at pacbell.net>
    To: towertalk at contesting.com
    Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] LMR 600 UF options ?
    Message-ID: <9e76e44a-cc82-bdd9-835b-bbae59031c19 at pacbell.net>
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

    Some time ago I asked DavisRF to make some Buryflex with 600 specs, but 
    no go.  I have two crank ups, so Burylex for me is ok for HF, but even 
    LMR-600 has too much loss 2m & 70cm (besides the cover problem)

    The CW is hardline will fatigue fail, but I think that chance is greatly 
    reduced when a number of cables are taped together as they currently are 
    on my HDX-589s.  Now 2 or 3 Buryflex, rotator, SteppIR controls, plus a 
    spare control taped every 2ft.  I use the loop slide thru cable 
    standoffs from KF7P.  Changing out one Buryflex to LDF4-50A would be the 
    plan (someday, I have a lot).

    My tower raise and lower frequency is pretty limited to maintenance, 
    lubrication, and expected storms, 6 +/- round trips per year.  With big 
    loop figure eight flaking of the bundle when lowering, the bend radius 
    is way larger than the multiple bend spec for LDF4. I can do that 
    looping by myself when lowering the tower, simple guiding when raising.

    Obviously, a Buryflex jumper is needed at the rotator and maybe at the 
    base.  Another approach with several helpers would be to pivot the 
    bundle out from the base and keep it straight. If somebody wanted to try 
    7/8 hardline, I think that might work as the bend radius would be about 
    the height of the lowest cable guide, 23 ft.

    There are larger RG cables, eg RG19/RG220/RG218, I think all are solid 
    conductor, heavy and very expensive.  At least hardline is relatively 
    light weight and LDF4 and copies are very available and lower loss.

    Grant KZ1W

    On 12/24/2019 01:49, Robert Harmon wrote:
    > Hi Rick,
    > 
    > I want the low loss of LMR-600.  (.3dB /100ft on 14Mhz)
    > There are several choices.
    > * Regular LMR-600  has a nice PE jacket but solid center conductor (aluminum/copperclad)  not that flexible.
    > * LMR-600 ultra flex which has a poor TPE jacket, but the center conducter is stranded copper, nice and flexible.
    > 
    > I would like LMR-600 UF with a PE jacket but not available.
    > 
    > I am planning to run 7/8"  hardline out to the top of the first section of my HDX589MDPL  (crank up tower) and then go with as low
    > loss as I can find "flexible" coax from there on up to the antenna.  I thought with LMR-600 I may not need a separate rotor loop either.
    > 
    > I will see if I can find loss info for RG-218 on 14Mhz    I found one table but it is for 50Mhz.
    > 
    > It would be a lot simpler if I didn't have a crank up tower hihi
    > 
    > 
    > Bob
    > K6UJ
    > 
    > 
    > 
    > 
    >> On Dec 23, 2019, at 5:21 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist <richard at karlquist.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> On 12/23/2019 2:47 PM, Robert Harmon wrote:
    >>> I would like to use LMR-600 UF on my crank up tower all the way up to the antenna without a rotor loop.  From what I understand
    >>> the UF (ultraflex) has a stranded center conductor and would have the flexibility needed.   The only problem is that it has a TPE jaket
    >>> which is only good for 7 years or so.  The reguar LMR-600 has a  solid center condutor (aluminum/copper clad) not stranded, but
    >>> has the good TP jacket like Bury Flex has.
    >>> I can't have the UF with TP jacket.  :-(
    >>> Any other options that you know of for a low loss feedline (like the LMR-600) that is flexible and has a good jacket ?
    >>> Bob
    >>> K6UJ
    >>
    >> I don't completely understand your question, but what I
    >> use on my HDX-5106 is RG-218 to go to the top of the tower,
    >> and then a rotor loop consisting of a short section of Bury-Flex.
    >> The rotor loop is connected to the RG-218 with a rigid
    >> 90 degree adapter.  It works for me.
    >>
    >> Rick N6RK
    >> _______________________________________________
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> _______________________________________________
    >> TowerTalk mailing list
    >> TowerTalk at contesting.com
    >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
    > 
    > _______________________________________________
    > 
    > 
    > 
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    > TowerTalk mailing list
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    > 

    ------------------------------

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    -- 

    Kim Elmore, Ph.D. (Adj. Assoc. Prof., OU School of Meteorology, CCM, PP
    SEL/MEL/Glider, N5OP, 2nd Class Radiotelegraph, GROL)

    /"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in
    practice, there is." //? Attributed to many people; it?s so true that it
    doesn?t matter who said it./

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