[TowerTalk] LMR 600 UF options ? And HARD LINE IN GENERAL : DAVIS RF Digest, Vol 204, Issue 23
Steve Davis | Davis RF
sdavis at davisrf.com
Tue Dec 24 13:48:49 EST 2019
HI, RFS Cablewave Cellflex 7/8", or 1/2" Heliax equivalent (equivalent attenuation and physically) is a much better , lower loss and highly cost effective alternative (LOWER COST) to LMR 600 or 600 UF. Grant it, not as flex as 600 UF but will work well on most applications. Note: Min bend radius on LMR 600 is 6" but on the fairly close OD same ", the RFS 1/2" is only 3". And the loss is slightly lower than LMR 600, across the useable spectrum . We have the lowest prices of any ham dealer on LMR, Heliax (very expensive) and RFS Cablewave (a high quality, LOWER price, equivalent to Heliax). Our mfr. Certified installers will install connectors for a nominal fee, preserving the mfr. Warranty on cable and connectors. All accessory parts of these 3 mfr's (like connectors, hangars, cable grounding, and much more ) also available from us @ low prices. Lastly, we get a lot of call for LMR 600, and we DOWN- SELL to RFS Cablewave 1/2" Cellflex , so as to save hams, and commercial, $$... whereas we could make more $$ by just complying with their original request for LMR 600. How do we do our low prices??: we sell a LOT to military and commercial, and I give my fellow hams the same price (One price up to 10,000 ft. then a further discount) Steve, K1PEK, DAVIS RF, Snr. RF Cable Design Engr.
On 12/24/19, 12:00 PM, "TowerTalk on behalf of towertalk-request at contesting.com" <towertalk-bounces at contesting.com on behalf of towertalk-request at contesting.com> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
2. LMR 600 UF options ? (Robert Harmon)
7. Re: LMR 600 UF options ? (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
8. Re: LMR 600 UF options ? (Robert Harmon)
9. Re: LMR 600 UF options ? (Grant Saviers)
10. Re: Ham IV Stuck (Dave Hachadorian)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2019 14:47:17 -0800
From: Robert Harmon <k6uj at pacbell.net>
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: [TowerTalk] LMR 600 UF options ?
Message-ID: <56700E5F-B30E-4B2C-A7E9-864685B791CE at pacbell.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I would like to use LMR-600 UF on my crank up tower all the way up to the antenna without a rotor loop. From what I understand
the UF (ultraflex) has a stranded center conductor and would have the flexibility needed. The only problem is that it has a TPE jaket
which is only good for 7 years or so. The reguar LMR-600 has a solid center condutor (aluminum/copper clad) not stranded, but
has the good TP jacket like Bury Flex has.
I can't have the UF with TP jacket. :-(
Any other options that you know of for a low loss feedline (like the LMR-600) that is flexible and has a good jacket ?
Bob
K6UJ
------------------------------
Any ideas or assistance is much appreciated.
------------------------------
This is why "low sidelobe antennas" are so hard to make. Imagine an
antenna where the requirement is that the sidelobes be down -60dB. The
proverbial gnat's eylash on the antenna will probably screw that up.
It's also why almost all 3 element Yagis have about the same forward
gain - that's the easy parameter to optimize for.
> Of course 200ft is not far away.
>
> Will try the same with my Mid Tri when it is installed.
>
> Ignacy, NO9E
> _______________________________________________
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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:21:17 -0800
From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard at karlquist.com>
To: Robert Harmon <k6uj at pacbell.net>, towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] LMR 600 UF options ?
Message-ID: <d03e7b2f-d652-07dc-202a-76255f077fba at karlquist.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 12/23/2019 2:47 PM, Robert Harmon wrote:
> I would like to use LMR-600 UF on my crank up tower all the way up to the antenna without a rotor loop. From what I understand
> the UF (ultraflex) has a stranded center conductor and would have the flexibility needed. The only problem is that it has a TPE jaket
> which is only good for 7 years or so. The reguar LMR-600 has a solid center condutor (aluminum/copper clad) not stranded, but
> has the good TP jacket like Bury Flex has.
>
> I can't have the UF with TP jacket. :-(
>
> Any other options that you know of for a low loss feedline (like the LMR-600) that is flexible and has a good jacket ?
>
>
> Bob
> K6UJ
>
I don't completely understand your question, but what I
use on my HDX-5106 is RG-218 to go to the top of the tower,
and then a rotor loop consisting of a short section of Bury-Flex.
The rotor loop is connected to the RG-218 with a rigid
90 degree adapter. It works for me.
Rick N6RK
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2019 17:49:43 -0800
From: Robert Harmon <k6uj at pacbell.net>
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] LMR 600 UF options ?
Message-ID: <D0FF4708-6350-42CF-9725-A24DD3A29ADD at pacbell.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi Rick,
I want the low loss of LMR-600. (.3dB /100ft on 14Mhz)
There are several choices.
* Regular LMR-600 has a nice PE jacket but solid center conductor (aluminum/copperclad) not that flexible.
* LMR-600 ultra flex which has a poor TPE jacket, but the center conducter is stranded copper, nice and flexible.
I would like LMR-600 UF with a PE jacket but not available.
I am planning to run 7/8" hardline out to the top of the first section of my HDX589MDPL (crank up tower) and then go with as low
loss as I can find "flexible" coax from there on up to the antenna. I thought with LMR-600 I may not need a separate rotor loop either.
I will see if I can find loss info for RG-218 on 14Mhz I found one table but it is for 50Mhz.
It would be a lot simpler if I didn't have a crank up tower hihi
Bob
K6UJ
> On Dec 23, 2019, at 5:21 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist <richard at karlquist.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 12/23/2019 2:47 PM, Robert Harmon wrote:
>> I would like to use LMR-600 UF on my crank up tower all the way up to the antenna without a rotor loop. From what I understand
>> the UF (ultraflex) has a stranded center conductor and would have the flexibility needed. The only problem is that it has a TPE jaket
>> which is only good for 7 years or so. The reguar LMR-600 has a solid center condutor (aluminum/copper clad) not stranded, but
>> has the good TP jacket like Bury Flex has.
>> I can't have the UF with TP jacket. :-(
>> Any other options that you know of for a low loss feedline (like the LMR-600) that is flexible and has a good jacket ?
>> Bob
>> K6UJ
>
> I don't completely understand your question, but what I
> use on my HDX-5106 is RG-218 to go to the top of the tower,
> and then a rotor loop consisting of a short section of Bury-Flex.
> The rotor loop is connected to the RG-218 with a rigid
> 90 degree adapter. It works for me.
>
> Rick N6RK
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2019 04:29:16 +0000
From: Grant Saviers <grants2 at pacbell.net>
To: towertalk at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] LMR 600 UF options ?
Message-ID: <9e76e44a-cc82-bdd9-835b-bbae59031c19 at pacbell.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Some time ago I asked DavisRF to make some Buryflex with 600 specs, but
no go. I have two crank ups, so Burylex for me is ok for HF, but even
LMR-600 has too much loss 2m & 70cm (besides the cover problem)
The CW is hardline will fatigue fail, but I think that chance is greatly
reduced when a number of cables are taped together as they currently are
on my HDX-589s. Now 2 or 3 Buryflex, rotator, SteppIR controls, plus a
spare control taped every 2ft. I use the loop slide thru cable
standoffs from KF7P. Changing out one Buryflex to LDF4-50A would be the
plan (someday, I have a lot).
My tower raise and lower frequency is pretty limited to maintenance,
lubrication, and expected storms, 6 +/- round trips per year. With big
loop figure eight flaking of the bundle when lowering, the bend radius
is way larger than the multiple bend spec for LDF4. I can do that
looping by myself when lowering the tower, simple guiding when raising.
Obviously, a Buryflex jumper is needed at the rotator and maybe at the
base. Another approach with several helpers would be to pivot the
bundle out from the base and keep it straight. If somebody wanted to try
7/8 hardline, I think that might work as the bend radius would be about
the height of the lowest cable guide, 23 ft.
There are larger RG cables, eg RG19/RG220/RG218, I think all are solid
conductor, heavy and very expensive. At least hardline is relatively
light weight and LDF4 and copies are very available and lower loss.
Grant KZ1W
On 12/24/2019 01:49, Robert Harmon wrote:
> Hi Rick,
>
> I want the low loss of LMR-600. (.3dB /100ft on 14Mhz)
> There are several choices.
> * Regular LMR-600 has a nice PE jacket but solid center conductor (aluminum/copperclad) not that flexible.
> * LMR-600 ultra flex which has a poor TPE jacket, but the center conducter is stranded copper, nice and flexible.
>
> I would like LMR-600 UF with a PE jacket but not available.
>
> I am planning to run 7/8" hardline out to the top of the first section of my HDX589MDPL (crank up tower) and then go with as low
> loss as I can find "flexible" coax from there on up to the antenna. I thought with LMR-600 I may not need a separate rotor loop either.
>
> I will see if I can find loss info for RG-218 on 14Mhz I found one table but it is for 50Mhz.
>
> It would be a lot simpler if I didn't have a crank up tower hihi
>
>
> Bob
> K6UJ
>
>
>
>
>> On Dec 23, 2019, at 5:21 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist <richard at karlquist.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/23/2019 2:47 PM, Robert Harmon wrote:
>>> I would like to use LMR-600 UF on my crank up tower all the way up to the antenna without a rotor loop. From what I understand
>>> the UF (ultraflex) has a stranded center conductor and would have the flexibility needed. The only problem is that it has a TPE jaket
>>> which is only good for 7 years or so. The reguar LMR-600 has a solid center condutor (aluminum/copper clad) not stranded, but
>>> has the good TP jacket like Bury Flex has.
>>> I can't have the UF with TP jacket. :-(
>>> Any other options that you know of for a low loss feedline (like the LMR-600) that is flexible and has a good jacket ?
>>> Bob
>>> K6UJ
>>
>> I don't completely understand your question, but what I
>> use on my HDX-5106 is RG-218 to go to the top of the tower,
>> and then a rotor loop consisting of a short section of Bury-Flex.
>> The rotor loop is connected to the RG-218 with a rigid
>> 90 degree adapter. It works for me.
>>
>> Rick N6RK
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
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> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
------------------------------
>
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--
Kim Elmore, Ph.D. (Adj. Assoc. Prof., OU School of Meteorology, CCM, PP
SEL/MEL/Glider, N5OP, 2nd Class Radiotelegraph, GROL)
/"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in
practice, there is." //? Attributed to many people; it?s so true that it
doesn?t matter who said it./
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