[TowerTalk] Ferrites 31 vs. 77 material

[Don]

Dave is spot on.

In a couple of cases I'm familiar with, China not only delivered goods 
with quality equal to or better than US manufactured items but with 
their technical capability and desire to excel, were able to offer 
suggestions that improved the product AND lowered the manufacturing 
cost. China is not the only example. A significant number of other 
countries are just as capable as the US to produce high quality goods. 
Just look at some of the amateur radio 'stuff' available on the market.

We aren't the only ducks in the pond anymore, and don't blame politics.

Don W7WLL

On 11/2/2019 4:14 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
>
>
> Well, if that's the case it means that Fair-Rite did a poor job of 
> transferring the manufacturing, and yes ... I've seen a bunch of other 
> companies do the same crappy job of it especially when all they were 
> looking for was quick cost reduction.  Those companies who made a 
> commitment to do it right have found a large pool of highly 
> conscientious technical labor in China just like we did. Those who 
> merely tried to port their processes over to some existing facility 
> usually failed.
>
> My gripe is that simply bashing anything made in China is decades out 
> of date and a bad generalization.
>
> 73,
> Dave   AB7E
>
>
> On 11/2/2019 1:48 PM, Jack Brindle via TowerTalk wrote:
>> Sadly, there is much evidence. Fair-rite quality really took a hit 
>> after they moved production to Asia. So much so that many companies 
>> have had to institute new QA procedures on incoming product to see if 
>> the characteristics come close to fitting the requirements. One of 
>> the biggest ones is large 60Hz transformer toroids that were failing 
>> in normal service because of the manufacturing issues. The company 
>> does still have some non-Asia manufacturing capability, and many 
>> companies are specifying product only from those sites.
>>
>> So yes, the toroids do have issues that are very problematic.
>>
>> Jack, W6FB
>>
>>> On Nov 2, 2019, at 11:21 AM, David Gilbert 
>>> <xdavid at cis-broadband.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I find that kind of China bashing pretty funny.  Ridiculous as a 
>>> generalization.
>>>
>>> I worked for a large semiconductor manufacturer for over thirty 
>>> years and we ended up putting a joint venture manufacturing 
>>> operation in China ... not simply for low cost, but also to be able 
>>> to serve the Asian market better and to be able to head off future 
>>> tariff concerns within China.  We spec'd our own equipment, we 
>>> trained all the operators, and we put our own managers in key 
>>> positions.  Most of those positions are now staffed by locals.  The 
>>> resulting quality was literally best-in-class on a world basis. MANY 
>>> other U.S., European, and even Japanese companies have done exactly 
>>> the same, and nothing says that Fair-Rite hasn't as well.
>>>
>>> It is certainly true that many of the smaller locally owned 
>>> companies in China have sloppy process and quality control, but 
>>> companies like the large subcontract outfits in China put equivalent 
>>> U.S. manufacturing to shame for overall manufacturing excellence.
>>>
>>> In the case of ferrites, the problem is the inherent variability of 
>>> the process itself and the problem previously existed wherever the 
>>> ferrites were previously manufactured ... including here in the 
>>> U.S.  Why you think the variability was less before the 
>>> manufacturing went to China is beyond me. Several of us here have 
>>> already explained that it wasn't.
>>>
>>> Dave   AB7E
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/2/2019 10:18 AM, Jim Thomson wrote:
>>>> Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2019 13:25:19 +0000 (UTC)
>>>> From: Roger Parsons <ve3zi at yahoo.com>
>>>> To: "Tower and HF Antenna Construction Topics."
>>>> <towertalk at contesting.com>, "jim at audiosystemsgroup.com"
>>>> <jim at audiosystemsgroup.com>
>>>> Subject: [TowerTalk] Ferrites 31 vs. 77 material
>>>>
>>>> <Very funny.
>>>> <The posts from both N6RK and AB7E support my statement that 
>>>> variability in ferrite parameters has been known for a very long 
>>>> time. You're the one who asserted that it has just been discovered 
>>>> and that therefore Steve G3TXQ could not have known about it.
>>>>
>>>> <73 RogerVE3ZI
>>>>
>>>> ##  I  believe it  was  N3RR  that  bought  700,   (seven 
>>>> hundred)   type  31  cores  from  one  supplier,  all  from the  
>>>> same  lot number..2 years  ago.  He  used  a  simple  1 turn  link 
>>>> to test them..and then  graded them.  They were all  over the  
>>>> map,  + and – 22%.   Thats a whopping  44% spread.  No  2 ferrites  
>>>> the  same!     ALL  made  in China......so what do  you expect ?  
>>>> So  much  for  fairite moving  their  factory  to  China.   QC  
>>>> down  the  tubes ever  since.
>>>>
>>>> Jim   VE7RF
>>>>
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