[TowerTalk] Need a Knot Expert

Gedas w8bya at mchsi.com
Thu Nov 28 11:20:08 EST 2019 

I should have also added that I will never have to worry about a gob of 
rope (70' of it) that becomes excess and just sits on the ground when 
the "antenna wire" is hoisted up in the air. If I wasn't so lazy I would 
make a pair of hooks etc like you have but this way I kill 2 birds with 
1 stone (I think).

Gedas, W8BYA

Gallery at http://w8bya.com
Light travels faster than sound....
This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

On 11/28/2019 11:06 AM, Gedas wrote:
> I am hoping that I will never have to worry about the "loose end" of 
> my rope ever getting loose and coming off the top pulley requiring me 
> to tilt over my tower to re-thread the rope thru the pulley.
>
> Gedas, W8BYA
>
> Gallery at http://w8bya.com
> Light travels faster than sound....
> This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
>
> On 11/28/2019 1:21 AM, Robert Harmon wrote:
>> Gedas,
>>
>> I have been following this discussion with interest.  I have a 
>> similar arrangement on my tower.  I have a 3 foot pipe extending out 
>> from the top section with a pulley on the end.
>> A rope goes through the pulley and is attached to the center of an 80 
>> meter inverted V.   Like you I can raise and lower the antenna with 
>> the rope.  The difference is
>> I dont have another pulley at the bottom and use a loop arrangement 
>> to raise and lower the antenna.   I have two cleats vertically 
>> mounted on a tower leg a little over 3
>> feet apart and after hoisting the antenna up I wind the rope around 
>> the two cleats.  It takes approximately 10 wraps.  What is the 
>> advantage of using a loop arrangement
>> between two pulleys ?
>>
>> Bob
>> K6UJ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 27, 2019, at 8:21 PM, Gedas <w8bya at mchsi.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I was wondering if anyone was going to ask that :-)
>>>
>>> In the past what I have been doing is making a temporary loop (you 
>>> know the kind that if you pull on the ends with nothing inside the 
>>> loop, the loop will disappear).....well anyway once the double 
>>> Bowline knot is hoisted up to the top of the tower and wire antenna 
>>> attached I create a temporary loop at the bottom and slip it over a 
>>> smooth curved 3/8" steel hook I have fastened to one of the tower 
>>> legs. It's not super easy to make because the line is fairly tight 
>>> but not so tight that I cannot make one. When it's time to lower the 
>>> antenna I simply pull the loop off that steel hook, pull the knot 
>>> apart and lower the antenna like a flag.
>>>
>>> Gedas, W8BYA
>>>
>>> Gallery at http://w8bya.com
>>> Light travels faster than sound....
>>> This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
>>>
>>> On 11/27/2019 10:23 PM, Howard wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm sorry I don't have any additional knot information than what 
>>>> has already been provided, however, I have a question. After you 
>>>> pull the loop for your dipole to the top pulley, how do you intend 
>>>> to hold the rope in that position?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Howard, WA9YBW
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/27/2019 3:50 PM, Gedas wrote:
>>>>> Hi Wes and TU. I am not sure I am positive what you mean by only a 
>>>>> load on the upper side of the knot.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am going to have two pulleys, one at the top of the tower and 
>>>>> one at the bottom. I am going to have a single long rope threaded 
>>>>> around both pulleys and I am going to use a fisherman's knot or 
>>>>> similar to tie the two together nice and tight. Not going to be 
>>>>> much tension in the rope at this point, maybe 10 pounds just to 
>>>>> keep both sides of the line nice and tight with no slop.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, I was hoping for a single knot that not only joined the two 
>>>>> ends of the rope together but that also left me with an open loop 
>>>>> so I could easily slip in something like a temporary chain link 
>>>>> etc and then attach one end of a dipole etc to that link.
>>>>>
>>>>> This way from the ground I would be able to hoist up or down that 
>>>>> end of the dipole as I pleased. Now, when the end of the dipole 
>>>>> gets attached to the other end of that temporary chain link etc 
>>>>> and the dipole is up in the air stretched tight there may be 30-40 
>>>>> pounds of tension pulling on that line. Since the two pulleys are 
>>>>> fixed that tension from the dipole will get translated to my ropes 
>>>>> going up and down the tower between the pulleys.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been doing this type of arrangement for 20 years but only 
>>>>> with a pulley at the top of the tower. Up until now I just had the 
>>>>> long single rope looped around a round aluminum cross member of my 
>>>>> free standing tower.
>>>>>
>>>>> There was some friction with the rope looping around the 3/8" dia 
>>>>> round & smooth diagonal but I never had a failure. This season I 
>>>>> installed a meaty pipe across the tower at about the 5' level and 
>>>>> attached a pulley at each end (I am going to have several ropes 
>>>>> going up and down so I can support and mess with more then 1 
>>>>> antenna).
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope that paints a more clear picture. So far I have had a lot 
>>>>> of great ideas and the only issue is me understanding their words 
>>>>> and making my fingers tie the knots the way I'm supposed to hi-hi.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gedas, W8BYA
>>>>>
>>>>> Gallery at http://w8bya.com
>>>>> Light travels faster than sound....
>>>>> This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/27/2019 4:25 PM, Wes wrote:
>>>>>> I'm with the other Wes on this one. If I understand correctly you 
>>>>>> only have a load on the upper side of the knot. I would join the 
>>>>>> ends with any old knot and tie a alpine butterfly loop on the 
>>>>>> upper side of the knot: 
>>>>>> https://www.animatedknots.com/alpine-butterfly-loop-knot or one I 
>>>>>> find easier to tie, a bowline on a bight: 
>>>>>> https://www.animatedknots.com/bowline-on-a-bight-knot
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wes  N7WS
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/27/2019 2:06 PM, Wes Attaway (N5WA) wrote:
>>>>>>> Gedas:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You have received a lot of good suggestions.  Here is one more, 
>>>>>>> and it is
>>>>>>> pretty simple.  You are apparently not going to be risking 
>>>>>>> anyone's life.
>>>>>>> You are going to hold up one end of a dipole and there may be 
>>>>>>> 30-40-pounds
>>>>>>> of tension..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would just join the two ends of the Dacron rope with a simple 
>>>>>>> square knot
>>>>>>> and with 6-inches or so of each rope sticking out from the 
>>>>>>> knot.  Then tie
>>>>>>> the two ends into a square knot.  Tape the ends to the rope if 
>>>>>>> you want to.
>>>>>>> With constant tension this arrangement will never come loose. I 
>>>>>>> have done
>>>>>>> this many times over many years with ropes into trees and on 
>>>>>>> towers, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Constant tension on the rope will keep the knots nice and tight.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      -------------------
>>>>>>> Wes Attaway (N5WA)
>>>>>>> (318) 393-3289 - Shreveport, LA
>>>>>>> Computer/Cellphone Forensics
>>>>>>> AttawayForensics.com
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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