[TowerTalk] 4 square question Part III

[kq2m at kq2m.com]

I want to thank KK9A, NA6O, W4EF, SM2EKM, DCharing (callsign?) and W6RMK, for all of their guidance, comments and links to helpful sites.  Greatly appreciated as always!

Now for the final question...  let’s say that the “positions” of the Gauge 12 or 14 THHN wire 4-square elements are N, E, S, and W, arranged in a box with the sides broadside to NE, SE, SW, and NW and all the elements will all have either 3 or 4 elevated radials.  I will be using the Comtek ACB4 (80) phasing box fed with each element fed with 1/4 wavelengths of RG11 foam coax.  (It’s the same phasing box I have been using for the past 25 years). 

Does it matter what directions the radials are pointing for each element?  So let’s say I am using the NE position on the ACB-4 controller, since I am radiating on all 4 elements, does it matter what directions the radials are pointing?  Do I want to have the same radial directions with all 4 elements or do I want to spread out the radial directions differently on each element?  Since NE is by far the most important direction for me (Europe), do I want to have more radials pointing NE or broadside NE or equally spread out so that the radiation and current return is more uniform?   I am not clear on any of this or if it is even important so I would appreciate any guidance that you can provide!

My understanding is that I want to get the radials at least .05 wavelength above ground so at least 13’ above ground.  Is that correct?

Tnx & 73


Bob, KQ2M



-----Original Message----- 
From: jimlux 
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2020 8:44 AM 
To: towertalk at contesting.com 
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] 4 square question 

On 10/22/20 9:45 PM, Michael Tope wrote:
> Bob,
> 
> I found this by googling "4  square 8 directions":
> 
> https://ncjweb.com/bonus-content/k3lc4squarea.pdf
> 
> I think W8JI describes something similar on his website.
> 
> 73, Mike W4EF....................
> 
> 

and that 4 square handbook from the DF6QV.. He's got all possible boxes 
and phasing
http://tm1o.free.fr/4SQ/80m/en_ver_final4-sq_03_04_15.pdf



> 
> On 10/22/2020 7:39 PM, kq2m at kq2m.com wrote:
>> I really want to thank Jim, Jeff, Les, Mike, John and Gary for all of 
>> their help, answers and ideas to which I have been giving a lot of 
>> thought this week. The information gleaned has made me confident of 
>> the new design.  Unfortunately there is no way to avoid putting the 
>> 4-square elements around the tower so I know that interaction effects 
>> will likely be noticed.  Vicious storms have taken down all the other 
>> tall trees that were previously in use to support my 80 meter 4-square.
>>
>> Note to Jim Lux – I am particularly intrigued by your idea of changing 
>> the feeding of the elements so that I can radiate broadside from the 
>> side of the array rather than on the diagonal since the only trees 
>> that I have to support elements happen to be roughly N, E, S and West, 
>> which, with the Comtek phasing box, would give me radiation N, E, S 
>> and West rather than the desired NE, SE, SW and NW.
>>
>> The Comtek ACB-4 outdoor box uses the NW element in Pos 1 on the 
>> outdoor , NE (2), SE (3) and SW in position 4 and arranged as shown in 
>> the .pdf:
>>
>> www.static.dxengineering.com/pdf/comtek_4_square_info.pdf
>>
>> Which elements (N, E, S, W) would you put in which positions on the 
>> box (so that the 4-square radiates toward the NE instead of East?
>>
>> How is the gain and F/B and F/S compared to the standard pattern that 
>> radiates diagonally?
>>
>>
>> Tnx to all & 73!
>>
>> Bob KQ2MTowerTalk mailing list
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