[TowerTalk] Vertical question

[Artek Manuals]

And all the arm waving aside the important graph in N6LF's paper is the 
one on page 12 which to to the original posters conundrum about what to 
do with his small yard one can conclude the following:

1) That for 80M,� for radials 8 feet high,� from� .1 wavelength to .3 
wavelength in length there is less than .5db difference in the "overall 
gain"� from 2 radials up to 16 radials when dealing with "Average Soil" 
(.005/13) .

What this DOES NOT speak to is
1) What happens with different soil types , my soil here in Florida ( as 
measured using N6LF's "OWL probe" approach) is typically .001/7 to 
.002/12 depending on a recent rains and changes back and forth quite 
quickly.
2) What happens on 160M? If you read N6LF considerable body of work over 
the years he will be the first to tell you that conductivity and Er of 
soil can vary considerably with frequency depending on a number of 
factors. For my extremely poor sandy soil here in Florida there is not ( 
as measured) much difference between 160 and 80, for the original 
poster's soils this may not be the case ( one size DOES NOT fit all)
3) The graph is for AVERAGE GAIN if chasing DX is your thing you might 
want to look more specifically at simulations that arrival angles on 
10-15 degrees on 80M and 20 degrees on 160M. This of course ignores some 
of the semi unexplained phenomena of very high angle arrival� of signals 
at gray line.� I worked a G station the other day on 80 ..... 2 hours 
after his sunrise... he was using a low Inverted-V (~40feet)� .. He was 
the ONLY EU I heard on the band.
4) As I think it was K9AY (?... my apology if I miss remembered your 
call) pointed out a few weeks ago that for verticals and especially 
inverted L's that one needs to be considering the the VERTICAL portion 
of the gain NOT the AVERAGE!
5) Most of N6LF's graphs as I understand it were the product of NEC 
simulations which depending on many factors may not represent ones 
actual environment ( trees, houses with wiring in them, nearby power 
lines, etc etc etc).

The bottom line in the real world ..... put it up and try it ...if that 
doesn't work put something else up and try that ...that IMO is where the 
real fun still lies in amateur radio

And the list goes on

Dave
NR1DX




On 3/15/2021 5:55 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>
> > N4ZR wrote:
>>
>> This is the second allusion to 1/8 wave elevated radials that I've
>> read, but I've been unable to find anything further, in the usual
>> sources. Any leads?
> Google found N6LF's work on elevated ground systems:
>
> <https://rudys.typepad.com/files/elevated-ground-systems-article-final-version.pdf> 
>
>
> Rudy's bibliography includes:
> Dick Weber, K5IU, �Optimum Elevated Radial Vertical Antennas,� 
> Communication Quarterly, Spring 1997, pp 9 - 27
>
>
> 73,
>
> �� ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 2021-03-15 5:42 PM, john at kk9a.com wrote:
>> I had the same small lot ground radial issue at my Aruba home but it 
>> still
>> somewhat worked. Another option might be the K2AV single wire folded
>> counterpoise.
>>
>> N4ZR wrote:
>>
>> This is the second allusion to 1/8 wave elevated radials that I've read,
>> but I've been unable to find anything further, in the usual sources.
>> Any leads?� I have an inverted L, but really don't have room for 1/4
>> wave elevated radials and am told that my 8 x 70 foot radials on the
>> ground really aren't worth much.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>
>
>
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-- 
Dave Manuals at ArtekManuals.com www.ArtekManuals.com


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