[TowerTalk] Sources for SS Hardware ??
Don Tucker
w7wll at peak.org
Thu Nov 10 23:02:42 EST 2022
Albany County Fasteners stocks a wide variety of standard SS and some
unique SS hardware as well. Great customer service.
Don W7WLL
On 11/10/2022 2:53 PM, n0tt1 at juno.com wrote:
> I use McMaster.com and the local Menards (big box) store
> for less critical projects. I like Menard's larger yet very affordable
> packs of say, SS bolts,
> instead of other stores that might have say, only two bolts in a bubble
> pack for sky-high
> prices.
>
> Charlie, N0TT
>
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 17:22:43 +0000 Steve Davis | Davis RF
> <sdavis at davisrf.com> writes:
>> Hello T-Talkers !
>>
>> Wondering what your recommended sources for SS hardware
>> nowadays??
>>
>> If you recommend a source, could you say yes or no as to knowing if
>> made in China or not??
>>
>> For those businesses recommended, but unknown if mfd. In China, I
>> will find out and recap to you.
>>
>> In my biz we stay away from anything MIC, unless , for instance, it
>> is a Times Microwave product where they have a US citizen handling
>> QC at the Chinese factory they lease.
>>
>> I have attached a link to a fairly good synopsis of the various
>> types, and grades of SS
>>
>> https://www.unifiedalloys.com/blog/stainless-grades-families
>>
>> Tnx, 73, good DX, Steve Davis, K1PEK
>> DAVIS RF Co.
>> DAVIS ROPE AND CABLE, LLC (metallic cable)
>>
>>
>> From: TowerTalk<towertalk-bounces at contesting.com> on behalf of
>> towertalk-request at contesting.com <towertalk-request at contesting.com>
>> Date: Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 12:01 PM
>> To:towertalk at contesting.com <towertalk at contesting.com>
>> Subject: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 239, Issue 9
>> Send TowerTalk mailing list submissions to
>> towertalk at contesting.com
>>
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>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Antenna ID help (jcjacobsen)
>> 2. Re: More friction needed (JVarney)
>> 3. Re: Antenna ID help (Jim W7RY)
>> 4. Mast clamp friction (k7lxc at aol.com)
>> 5. Tnx for all the mast friction comments! (k7lxc at aol.com)
>> 6. m2 rotator slippage (STEPHEN L SALA)
>> 7. Re: Antenna ID help (Floyd Rodgers)
>> 8. Re: More friction needed (Grant Saviers)
>> 9. Re: More friction needed (JVarney)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2022 09:52:47 -0800
>> From: jcjacobsen<jcjacobsen at q.com>
>> To:towertalk at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Antenna ID help
>> Message-ID: <96WVN5WTCIU4.EKDC04CPXB2C at luweb02oc>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> Hello Towertalkians
>>
>>
>> Need help ID'ing a 2 meter yagi. Haven't been able to find anything
>> on line, probably because of its age. I thought maybe a Hy-Gain or
>> KLM, but no joy.
>> So I'm turning to the collective memory of the old timers on the
>> reflector.
>>
>>
>> 11 elements. Aprox 14' boom. Has a 4 element LogCell for a driven
>> element.
>>
>>
>> Any help out there??
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>> 73 K9WN Jake
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2022 10:25:55 -0800
>> From: JVarney<jvarn359 at gmail.com>
>> To: "[TowerTalk]"<towertalk at contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] More friction needed
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> <CANx7Etau459BoSsaEcLqxkcnByCeCwgSc_S5bbkyCG=5RFgOVQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> Dave AB7E wrote>> Personally, I think the idea of using multiple
>> U-bolts is
>> the best way to go. <<
>>
>> I agree. And instead of shooting from the hip and guessing, with
>> U-bolts
>> you can calculate and
>> engineer the number and size of U-bolts needed to resist the mast
>> torque.
>> This is a simplified
>> version of the procedure in TIA-222-H
>>
>> Nominal torsional strength of U-bolt assembly = Tr = 0.075 (D)(Tp)
>> Tp = assumed U-bolt leg tension = (20 ksi)(Ag of leg)
>>
>> where D = mast diameter, Ag = gross area of U-bolt leg. English
>> units.
>>
>> U-bolts should not be tightened past yield and should be limited to
>> 0.85 Fy
>> Ag.
>>
>> ===
>>
>> Example: 3 3/8 U-bolts and a 2-in mast.
>>
>> Ag leg = 0.19 sq in
>> Tp = 20 ksi x 0.19 = 3800 lbs
>> Tr = 0.075 ( 2 in )(3800) = 570 in-lbs per leg
>>
>> System Tr = (3 U-bolts)(2 legs each)(570 in-lbs) = 3,420 in-lbs
>> torque
>> resistance
>>
>> ===
>>
>> Considering a Yaesu G-800 has a brake resistance 0f 4,000 in-lbs,
>> the 3
>> U-bolts is
>> in the ballpark for a medium tribander. If you ignore the 20k yield
>> assumption and use
>> 42k yield for stainless and tighten to 0.85FyAg, that gets you 1,000
>> in-lbs
>> per leg,
>> equal to 6,000 in-lbs total torque resistance.
>>
>> This simplified estimate ignores vertical slippage forces due to the
>> weight
>> of the
>> mast and antenna acting on the U-bolts, which reduces the available
>> torque
>> resistance somewhat.
>>
>> 73 Jim K6OK
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2022 12:26:38 -0600
>> From: Jim W7RY<jimw7ry at gmail.com>
>> To:towertalk at contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Antenna ID help
>> Message-ID:<8adc514b-7877-edd4-5fd9-dd943c608c5f at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>
>> If you post this on towertalk on the groups.io list, you could
>> attache a
>> picture.
>>
>> Feel free to join.
>> 73, Jim W7RY
>>
>>
>> On 11/9/2022 11:52 AM, jcjacobsen via TowerTalk wrote:
>>> Hello Towertalkians
>>>
>>>
>>> Need help ID'ing a 2 meter yagi. Haven't been able to find
>> anything on line, probably because of its age. I thought maybe a
>> Hy-Gain or KLM, but no joy.
>>> So I'm turning to the collective memory of the old timers on the
>> reflector.
>>>
>>> 11 elements. Aprox 14' boom. Has a 4 element LogCell for a driven
>> element.
>>>
>>> Any help out there??
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>>
>>> 73 K9WN Jake
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TowerTalk mailing list
>>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>> --
>> Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2022 18:38:05 +0000 (UTC)
>> From:<k7lxc at aol.com>
>> To:towertalk at contesting.com
>> Subject: [TowerTalk] Mast clamp friction
>> Message-ID:<908629317.427392.1668019085374 at mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> ? ? Here is a cheap and elegant way to increase the friction.?
>> ?Cheers,Steve? ? ?K7LXC? If I need for a clamp to hold without
>> slipping, this is what I do.? I am
>> a retired machinist.
>>
>> I make my own 3 inch saddles from 3/4 x 1 1/2 billet aluminum.
>>
>> I use hot dipped galvanized U-bolts, as SS bolts all seem to be
>> 'one
>> time' use, before failure.
>>
>> I use a light duty adhesive sprayed on the 'bore' part of the
>> saddle.?
>> Women's hair spray works fine.
>>
>> While wet, sprinkle silicon carbide particles on the adhesive. This
>> size
>> is about like ground pepper from a pepper mill.
>>
>> Assemble and tighten down.? The silicon carbide presses into both
>> the
>> aluminum saddles and into the zinc on the galvanized mast. It will
>> not
>> slip!?? Be careful in handling the mast/saddles; the silicon carbide
>> can
>> be hard on the hands.
>>
>> 73 de Steve, NR4M
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2022 18:39:48 +0000 (UTC)
>> From:<k7lxc at aol.com>
>> To:towertalk at contesting.com
>> Subject: [TowerTalk] Tnx for all the mast friction comments!
>> Message-ID:<1957544183.426550.1668019188891 at mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Steve? ? ?K7LXC
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2022 18:44:25 +0000
>> From: STEPHEN L SALA<k7awb at msn.com>
>> To:"towertalk at contesting.com" <towertalk at contesting.com>
>> Subject: [TowerTalk] m2 rotator slippage
>> Message-ID:
>>
>>
> <CH3PR14MB620281C362505B3ACCC14011ED3E9 at CH3PR14MB6202.namprd14.prod.outlo
> ok.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> steve k7lxc:
>> several years ago i had that same problem and your company sold me a
>> large metal two-piece bracket as a replacement for the M2 parts
>> (yours had holes for 6 clamps.
>>
>> it worked perfectly and it has been about ten years up there. don?t
>> you have one in storage to use yourself?
>>
>> Stephen
>> K7awb
>> DN17es
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2022 19:01:02 +0000 (UTC)
>> From: Floyd Rodgers<kc5qbc at swbell.net>
>> To:"towertalk at contesting.com" <towertalk at contesting.com>,
>> jcjacobsen
>> <jcjacobsen at q.com>
>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Antenna ID help
>> Message-ID:<84951341.439002.1668020462813 at mail.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> Most likely a klm of 70's? vintage.?
>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:52:59 AM CST, jcjacobsen
>> via TowerTalk<towertalk at contesting.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Towertalkians
>>
>>
>> Need help ID'ing a 2 meter yagi. Haven't been able to find anything
>> on line, probably because of its age. I thought maybe a Hy-Gain or
>> KLM, but no joy.
>> So I'm turning to the collective memory of the old timers on the
>> reflector.
>>
>>
>> 11 elements. Aprox 14' boom. Has a 4 element LogCell for a driven
>> element.
>>
>>
>> Any help out there??
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>> 73 K9WN? Jake
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2022 13:49:47 -0800
>> From: Grant Saviers<grants2 at pacbell.net>
>> To: Steve Dyer W1SRD<w1srd at yahoo.com>,
>> "'towertalk at contesting.com'"
>> <towertalk at contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] More friction needed
>> Message-ID:<f80b1c5e-3ead-e707-4474-dccc1df693f2 at pacbell.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>
>> The work can be done on many home shop lathes - 12x36 and even some
>> smaller, so check around for who might be willing to help.
>>
>> A piece of tubing or a mandrel of most anything the size of the
>> mast
>> minus 0.050" or so makes the setup easier - centering the two halves
>> and
>> then boring to the desired diameter, recenter and repeat as
>> necessary to
>> get a square bore and enough teeth and area on the teeth. Three or
>> 4
>> cleaned up teeth per row on each half with 1/4" contact areas is
>> what I
>> decided was about right. While I bored for a 3" mast, I think the
>> casting should work for a 2" bore.
>>
>> An hour or two of lathe time if you can find a commercial shop
>> willing
>> to take it on.
>>
>> It's clear the design intent was to work with all mast diameters,
>> but
>> that limits the possible tooth engagement. Then adding casting
>> variability created a marginal clamp system. Mold wear yields more
>> variability and base machining is difficult to get square on the
>> cast
>> teeth. It's a classic problem in machining an iron casting - what
>> is
>> the best reference surface or where should one be machined?
>>
>> I think many masts slip because bolts are not tightened to spec and
>> not
>> retightened evenly another couple of times. Also, using stainless
>> steel
>> bolts, some of which have a tendency to stretch a bit over time.
>> My
>> DB36 stock mast clamp slipped 3 times before I reinforced the
>> aluminum
>> "C" clamps on the backside with 1/2" thick steel bar and used grade
>> 8
>> bolts torqued to spec 3x. The stock "C" collar pair would close to
>> tips
>> touching and that made further tightening useless.
>>
>> I am also a big fan of the DX Engineering cast saddle U bolt clamp
>> sets.
>> The saddle has a large contact area with the mast or tube and my
>> choice for all home brew antennas. Never had one slip. A great
>> part
>> for making a multi U bolt mast clamp.
>>
>> A u-bolt holding a tube against a flat plate may have only 2
>> contact
>> points. Using many u-bolts is one approach. Deforming the u-bolts
>> to
>> increase the "wrap" is another. Or flattening the tube.
>>
>> Grant KZ1W
>>
>> On 11/8/2022 17:42, Steve Dyer W1SRD via TowerTalk wrote:
>>> What would a competent machine shop charge to do this? Most of us
>> don't
>>> have a fully outfitted machine shop :-).
>>> 73,
>>> Steve
>>> W1SRD
>>>> Bolt the two clamp sections to a lathe faceplate and bore them to
>> the
>>>> mast diameter.? Remove enough material to enlarge the contact area
>> and
>>>> insure the bore is true to the bases.? Use grade 8 bolts and use
>> a
>>>> torque wrench to max spec torque for the size bolt.? Repeat this
>>>> tightening 3 times.
>>>>
>>>> The clamp bore as cast wasn't straight to the machined base and
>> only a
>>>> few "points" would have made contact in the 2800 I have turning a
>> 375#
>>>> 100ft tip to tip 2L 80m beam.? Now it doesn't slip.
>>>>
>>>> Grant KZ1W
>>>>
>>>> On 11/8/2022 10:00, k7lxc--- via TowerTalk wrote:
>>>>> Howdy, TowerTalkians -
>>>>> ??? ? I need more friction between an M2 mast clamp and the
>> mast. How
>>>>> could I do that? What materials would work? Tnx.?Cheers,Steve
>>>>> K7LXCCell: 206-890-4188
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TowerTalk mailing list
>>>>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TowerTalk mailing list
>>>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TowerTalk mailing list
>>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2022 16:02:12 -0800
>> From: JVarney<jvarn359 at gmail.com>
>> To: "[TowerTalk]"<towertalk at contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] More friction needed
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> <CANx7EtaoOBaqqhECc_sz6Wts-i0wyYP1XVKERCShxa2unw5xEg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>
>> Sorry my Gmail messed up the line breaks and made it
>> unreadable. Reposting for anyone interested in calculating
>> U-bolt torsion resistance for masts.
>>
>> I'm fairly confident this method is a good approximation
>> because the TIA committee, composed of experienced engineers
>> in the tower industry, wouldn't write this into the
>> building code unless it had good support.
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> Dave AB7E wrote>> Personally, I think the idea of using multiple
>> U-bolts is the best way to go. <<
>>
>> I agree. And instead of shooting from the hip and guessing,
>> with U-bolts you can calculate and engineer the number and size
>> of U-bolts needed to resist the mast torque. This is a simplified
>> version of the procedure in TIA-222-H
>>
>> Nominal torsional strength of U-bolt assembly = Tr
>> Tr = 0.075 (D)(Tp)
>> Tp = assumed U-bolt leg tension = (20 ksi)(Ag of leg)
>> where D = mast diameter, Ag = gross area of U-bolt leg.
>>
>> U-bolts should not be tightened past yield and should be limited
>> to 0.85 Fy Ag.
>>
>> ===
>>
>> Example: 3 3/8 U-bolts and a 2-in mast.
>>
>> Ag leg = 0.19 sq in Tp = 20 ksi x 0.19 = 3800 lbs
>> Tr = 0.075 ( 2 in )(3800) = 570 in-lbs per leg
>> System Tr = (3 U-bolts)(2 legs each)(570 in-lbs) = 3,420 in-lbs
>> torque resistance
>>
>> ===
>>
>> Considering a Yaesu G-800 has a brake resistance 0f 4,000 in-lbs,
>> the 3 U-bolts is in the ballpark for a medium tribander.
>> If you ignore the 20k yield assumption and use 42k yield
>> for stainless and tighten to 0.85FyAg, that gets you 1,000
>> in-lbs per leg, equal to 6,000 in-lbs total torque resistance.
>>
>> This simplified estimate ignores vertical slippage forces due
>> to the weight of the mast and antenna acting on the U-bolts,
>> which reduces the available torque resistance somewhat.
>>
>> 73 Jim K6OK
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 239, Issue 9
>> *****************************************
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>
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