[TRLog] TRLog in the RTTY Sprint (long)

Gil Baron gbaron@home.com
Mon, 15 Oct 2001 22:55:19 -0500


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At 21:42 10/15/2001, Guy Olinger, K2AV wrote:

>I am really tired of substituting mouse wiggles for perfectly good
>keystrokes.
>
>Is there possibly another approach that could actually make some money?
>There are a lot of us that have various dos programs we have had for
>years and can CTL-whatever in our sleep. NOT just TRLog.
>
>TR is but one of SEVERAL DOZEN hangers-on I keep around.
>
>I would pay TWO hundred dollars for a dos box that REALLY WORKED. Not
>for a windows version of those two dozen programs, but a SINGLE DOS BOX
>that has some development to keep it current.  A windows program that
>was a shell to run old dos programs, really, reliably, with some slicks.
>
>Mickey Sloth hasn't put in a minute on dos box code in almost a decade.
>It is the demise of the dos box (to FORCE us to buy windows programs to
>replace the old ones) that is the problem here.


That is not true. It is impossible to have a stable windows AND a dos box . 
You simply cannot allow the application to have access to ring 0 code.



>If you can get a windows program to send smooth cw running on a 1.8 GHz
>PC (you SHOULD be able to), why not a windows program "dos box" pulling
>the same strings.
>
>I would pay good money for something like "DA BOX" to keep my oldies
>running. And DA BOX would appeal to other people besides hams.
>
>PS, don't EVER listen to a bunch of hams talking about whether they want
>to pay for something. They all sound like they would cheat the kids out
>of ice cream money. If you want to know whether they will spend money or
>not, look at their radio toys....
>
>73
>
>-----------------
>
>Guy Olinger, K2AV
>Apex, NC, USA
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <LogWindows@aol.com>
>To: <trlog@contesting.com>
>Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 12:54 PM
>Subject: Re: [TRLog] TRLog in the RTTY Sprint (long)
>
>
> >
> > Ken,
> >
> > This is NOT what I said.
> >
> > First, Windows is a stable O/S, much more stable than dos. In my
>previous
> > life, I wrote Operating System code for The Software Link, on the
> > Multiuser/Multitasking version of DOS called PC-MOS. From that
>experience,
> > and my time with Microsoft and my friends at Microsoft, I do know that
>both
> > the 9X and NT based versions of Windows are much better code than DOS
>ever
> > was.
> >
> > Second, the goal would have been to create a functionality equivalent
>of
> > TRLog for the Windows O/S. While some features would be changed (i.e
> > networking, etc), it would just take time to have a full featured
>version.
> >
> > The reason we didn't proceed with the project is that after I compiled
>the
> > results of the survey, most users wanted a DOS version of TRLog that
>worked
> > well under Windows. Many of the users didn't want to pay one dime for
>the
> > Windows upgrade, even though I was going to invest over $100,000 to do
>it.
> >
> > Also, Tree would have gotten a royalty and W4SCO (owner of Log
>Windows) would
> > have gotten a royalty from each sale (as they should), so I didn't see
>any
> > way to repay the investment or even look at making a profit, if the
>current
> > userbase wanted the Windows version for free or didn't want it all.
> >
> > And if any if you think that there is a profit in writing ham
>software, you
> > may want to rethink you assumptions.  :) The ham market is such a tiny
> > market, even as compared to hobby markets like Stage Magic and
>woodworking.
> >
> > Rick - W4PC
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 10/15/2001 9:48:27 AM Central Daylight Time,
> > kharker@cs.utexas.edu writes:
> >
> > > The proposed port of TR Log to Windows would have been done by W4PC
>and
> > >  others at Creative Services Software - not by Tree.  W4PC did a
>little
> > >  research and concluded that TR Log users would not be likely to
>switch
> > >  from a stable, feature-rich product on a real-time OS to something
>that
> > >  (at least for a while would be) a developing, feature-poor product
>on an
> > >  unstable OS.  You could argue that a better market to target would
>be
> > >  those who are not already invested in TR Log, but nonetheless,
>that's
> > >  why W4PC claims to have dropped the project.
> > >
> >
> > --
> > FAQ on WWW:               http://www.contesting.com/FAQ/trlog
> > Submissions:              trlog@contesting.com
> > Administrative requests:  trlog-REQUEST@contesting.com
> > Problems:                 owner-trlog@contesting.com
> > Feature Wishlist:   http://web.jzap.com/n6tr/trwish.html
> >
>
>
>
>--
>FAQ on WWW:               http://www.contesting.com/FAQ/trlog
>Submissions:              trlog@contesting.com
>Administrative requests:  trlog-REQUEST@contesting.com
>Problems:                 owner-trlog@contesting.com
>Feature Wishlist:         http://web.jzap.com/n6tr/trwish.html

Gil Baron http://members.home.com/gbaron
W0MN 44.08208 N 92.51263 W 1055'
"Baila como nadie te ve"

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At 21:42 10/15/2001, Guy Olinger, K2AV wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>I am really tired of substituting
mouse wiggles for perfectly good<br>
keystrokes.<br><br>
Is there possibly another approach that could actually make some
money?<br>
There are a lot of us that have various dos programs we have had 
for<br>
years and can CTL-whatever in our sleep. NOT just TRLog.<br><br>
TR is but one of SEVERAL DOZEN hangers-on I keep around.<br><br>
I would pay TWO hundred dollars for a dos box that REALLY WORKED.
Not<br>
for a windows version of those two dozen programs, but a SINGLE DOS
BOX<br>
that has some development to keep it current.&nbsp; A windows program
that<br>
was a shell to run old dos programs, really, reliably, with some
slicks.<br><br>
Mickey Sloth hasn't put in a minute on dos box code in almost a
decade.<br>
It is the demise of the dos box (to FORCE us to buy windows programs
to<br>
replace the old ones) that is the problem here.</blockquote><br><br>
That is not true. It is impossible to have a stable windows AND a dos box
. You simply cannot allow the application to have access to ring 0
code.<br><br>
<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>If you can get a windows program to
send smooth cw running on a 1.8 GHz<br>
PC (you SHOULD be able to), why not a windows program &quot;dos box&quot;
pulling<br>
the same strings.<br><br>
I would pay good money for something like &quot;DA BOX&quot; to keep my
oldies<br>
running. And DA BOX would appeal to other people besides hams.<br><br>
PS, don't EVER listen to a bunch of hams talking about whether they
want<br>
to pay for something. They all sound like they would cheat the kids
out<br>
of ice cream money. If you want to know whether they will spend money
or<br>
not, look at their radio toys....<br><br>
73<br><br>
-----------------<br><br>
Guy Olinger, K2AV<br>
Apex, NC, USA<br><br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: &lt;LogWindows@aol.com&gt;<br>
To: &lt;trlog@contesting.com&gt;<br>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 12:54 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [TRLog] TRLog in the RTTY Sprint (long)<br><br>
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Ken,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; This is NOT what I said.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; First, Windows is a stable O/S, much more stable than dos. In
my<br>
previous<br>
&gt; life, I wrote Operating System code for The Software Link, on
the<br>
&gt; Multiuser/Multitasking version of DOS called PC-MOS. From that<br>
experience,<br>
&gt; and my time with Microsoft and my friends at Microsoft, I do know
that<br>
both<br>
&gt; the 9X and NT based versions of Windows are much better code than
DOS<br>
ever<br>
&gt; was.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Second, the goal would have been to create a functionality
equivalent<br>
of<br>
&gt; TRLog for the Windows O/S. While some features would be changed
(i.e<br>
&gt; networking, etc), it would just take time to have a full
featured<br>
version.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The reason we didn't proceed with the project is that after I
compiled<br>
the<br>
&gt; results of the survey, most users wanted a DOS version of TRLog
that<br>
worked<br>
&gt; well under Windows. Many of the users didn't want to pay one dime
for<br>
the<br>
&gt; Windows upgrade, even though I was going to invest over $100,000 to
do<br>
it.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Also, Tree would have gotten a royalty and W4SCO (owner of Log<br>
Windows) would<br>
&gt; have gotten a royalty from each sale (as they should), so I didn't
see<br>
any<br>
&gt; way to repay the investment or even look at making a profit, if
the<br>
current<br>
&gt; userbase wanted the Windows version for free or didn't want it
all.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; And if any if you think that there is a profit in writing ham<br>
software, you<br>
&gt; may want to rethink you assumptions.&nbsp; :) The ham market is such
a tiny<br>
&gt; market, even as compared to hobby markets like Stage Magic and<br>
woodworking.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Rick - W4PC<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; In a message dated 10/15/2001 9:48:27 AM Central Daylight 
Time,<br>
&gt; kharker@cs.utexas.edu writes:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; The proposed port of TR Log to Windows would have been done by
W4PC<br>
and<br>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp; others at Creative Services Software - not by Tree.&nbsp;
W4PC did a<br>
little<br>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp; research and concluded that TR Log users would not be
likely to<br>
switch<br>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp; from a stable, feature-rich product on a real-time OS to
something<br>
that<br>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp; (at least for a while would be) a developing,
feature-poor product<br>
on an<br>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp; unstable OS.&nbsp; You could argue that a better market
to target would<br>
be<br>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp; those who are not already invested in TR Log, but
nonetheless,<br>
that's<br>
&gt; &gt;&nbsp; why W4PC claims to have dropped the project.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; FAQ on
WWW:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href="http://www.contesting.com/FAQ/trlog" eudora="autourl">http://www.contesting.com/FAQ/trlog</a><br>
&gt;
Submissions:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
trlog@contesting.com<br>
&gt; Administrative requests:&nbsp; trlog-REQUEST@contesting.com<br>
&gt;
Problems:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
owner-trlog@contesting.com<br>
&gt; Feature Wishlist:&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href="http://web.jzap.com/n6tr/trwish.html" eudora="autourl">http://web.jzap.com/n6tr/trwish.html</a><br>
&gt;<br><br>
<br><br>
--<br>
FAQ on
WWW:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href="http://www.contesting.com/FAQ/trlog" eudora="autourl">http://www.contesting.com/FAQ/trlog</a><br>
Submissions:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
trlog@contesting.com<br>
Administrative requests:&nbsp; trlog-REQUEST@contesting.com<br>
Problems:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
owner-trlog@contesting.com<br>
Feature
Wishlist:<x-tab>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</x-tab>&nbsp;
<a href="http://web.jzap.com/n6tr/trwish.html" eudora="autourl">http://web.jzap.com/n6tr/trwish.html</a></blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<font face="Courier New, Courier">Gil Baron
<a href="http://members.home.com/gbaron" eudora="autourl">http://members.home.com/gbaron</a><br>
W0MN 44.08208 N 92.51263 W 1055'<br>
&quot;Baila como nadie te ve&quot; <br>
</font></html>

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--
FAQ on WWW:               http://www.contesting.com/FAQ/trlog
Submissions:              trlog@contesting.com
Administrative requests:  trlog-REQUEST@contesting.com
Problems:                 owner-trlog@contesting.com
Feature Wishlist:	  http://web.jzap.com/n6tr/trwish.html