[UK-CONTEST] Fw: Fwd: Re: NFD

[QUENTIN COLLIER]

I am following up on the e-mail (which you will have seen) from Ken G3LVP at the 
bottom of this chain, because:

(a) I am profoundly disturbed that Ken should have chosen to publish on this 
reflector communications which were properly private between the RSGB Contest 
Committee and the chairman of Cheltenham ARA
(b) by selectively picking from a thread of several e-mails, his mailing does 
not present a balanced picture
(c) since the original posting was to NFD registrants rather than UK-CONTEST, 
many subscribers to this reflector will have little or no knowledge of the 
background, and may therefore find themselves rather confused!

Steve G3UFY as Contest Committee secretary e-mailed out late last night covering 
off most of the points, but, with the agreement of the chairman of Cheltenham 
ARA, I have decided to circulate the full e-mail string so that subscribers to 
this reflector can see the whole story. 

The initial posting, on Tuesday 31 May at 1606 under the heading CLARIFICATION 
OF NFD RULES from myself to all groups who had registered for NFD this coming 
weekend,  was as follows:

Hi again NFDers,

I have had a query raised by a couple of participating groups, and on the 
principle that something being pondered by two groups may be exercising the mind 

of others, I thought it would be worthwhile to send this round all the 
registrants.....

The query relates to whether the use of skimmer and RBN are acceptable in the 
Restricted section of NFD. There are some quite complex issues involved here, so 

in the slightly longer term the CC will be considering their use (and possibly 
the use of other emergent technologies) as part of the review of FD rules 
(covering NFD, SSB FD VHF NFD) that we are currently undertaking, with a view to 

some significant rule changes for the 2012 season. But for this year, I can 
confirm that for this year, RBN and skimmer may be used in all sections of NFD.

See you on the wireless this weekend....

73,



Quin G3WRR
NFD Adjudicator 

Derek G3NKS, as chairman of Cheltenham ARA, responded to myself as follows:

Hi Quin,
I'm very surprised indeed by the ruling that RBN and skimmers are allowed in the 
Restricted Section this year. I say this because it seems to me that in broad 
terms such devices perform much the same sort of function as would a second, 
stand-alone, receiver which is not,allowed in the Restricted Section. Open 
Section - Yes.
I don't subscribe to the contest reflector at the moment, hence this direct 
email to you.
See you during the weekend from G5BK/P.
73,
Derek G3NKS 

I then responded to Derek as follows:

Hi Derek,
You are an early bird, I see Derek....I was going to reply to Ken LVP's e-mail 
this morning, but hopefully Ken won't feel slighted if I cover of both your 
e-mails with this one reply!
The whole RBN and skimmer situation is, as I think I said in my earlier e-mail, 
quite a complex one, which one can argue in several ways. For example one could 
argue that RBN is OK, as RBN is merely a kind of automated DX cluster, but that 
skimmer isn't as it's a separate RX (as you say). Or that skimmer is actually OK 
as it's a separate receiver (albeit an automatic and seriously wideband one), 
and that it doesn't in reality make much difference whether the second rx is in 
the same box (as per current Restricted section rules) or a different 
one.....and so on and so on. That is why we decided to defer making a rapid 
final decision, and consider the problem as part of the current broader study of 
FD rules. However some guidance was needed now given the fact that NFD is just 3 
days away, and so we decided to go down the permissive route for this year. I 
know you don't agree with the result, but hopefully you will understand why we 
went the way we did. All I can say is that if we had gone the way you would have 
preferred we would have upset a different group of contesters!
Personally I wouldn't at this stage care to predict the final outcome of the 
discussion, so all of our customers' views are of use and ARE listened to. And 
finally thanks for saying what you did in a courteous way, without descending 
into the personal abuse mode that we increasingly see nowadays.
And yes, hopefully we'll be able to work on all 6 bands (entirely unassisted by 
RBN or skimmer at both ends) this weekend.
73,





Quin WRR 

 
Derek responded to me as follows (this being the full e-mail from which Ken 
posted to UK CONTEST below):
 
Hi Quin,
Thank you for taking the trouble to explain the rationale behind the decision to 
permit the use of RBN and skimmers. However, having spoken to members of the 
G5BK/P NFD team, we wish to register a formal and strong objection to the 
decision for the following reasons:
1. The very short notice given for, as we see it, the change to the rules. This 
gives groups not already prepared to use such technology (and we believe there 
will be many) very little time to benefit from the change. This, we argue, is 
unfair.
2. The means by which the change was promulgated. We believe that not all groups 
monitor the contest reflector, so there will be some who will not have heard 
about the change. Again, unfair.
3. The change does not fit with the "no second (stand-alone) receiver" rule in 
the Restricted Section. If we can now use RBN and skimmer, why not a second 
receiver for the latter provides, in general terms, much the same function as 
the former. A totally inconsistent decision, we argue.
Just to make it clear, we are not against change. For instance, we would welcome 
the ability to be able to have a second receiver available so that we could 
involve more club members in the event, and especially so that we could 
introduce more club members to the attractions of the event. Neither are we 
against the changes that new technology bring. But we do strongly believe that 
such changes must be introduced in a considered, timely, consistent manner and 
promulgated well ahead of the event so that groups can properly benefit from the 
changes.
73,
Derek G3NKS
Chairman
Cheltenham Amateur Radio Association
  
My response was as follows:

OK Derek (and other CARA addressees),
Your objection is noted, and I'll make sure this is seen by the CC as a whole: 
and it will be factored into our post-NFD considerations of the rules. I'd like 
to make a couple of points in response:
1. This wasn't meant as a change to the rules, short notice or otherwise. 
Rather, it was intended, following entrant queries, as a clarification of how 
new technonolgy fitted within the existing rules....without such a clarification 
we would have ended up with some clubs believing skimmer & RBN were OK and 
others believing they weren't, and acting accordingly. The intention was to 
provide a level playing field (to use one of those annoying but useful 
management phrases), albeit one with which not everyone would agree.
2. The clarification was NOT promulgated via the UK-CONTEST reflector, and for 
precisely the reason you identify. Instead it was a posting to all groups who 
had registered for NFD this year.
3. The current rule that Restricted section stations can use a second receiver 
provided it's built into a transceiver but not if it's stand alone is one that 
seriously needs looking at on the grounds of consistency. 


I'm happy to continue this debate if you think that would be helpful, but I'd 
prefer that to be after NFD: although we're pretty well done and dusted, I'm 
still looking for one key item to complete our club's station - and when you're 
200 miles from home, significant omissions can be embarrassing!
73,




Quin WRR

So that's the story up to the point at which Ken e-mailed out as immediately 
below. Moving forward summary the CC will be considering the position regarding 
skimmer & RBN in depth as part of our current review of FD rules (and as part of 
that we'd be pleased to have any views from UK-CONTEST subscribers on skimmer 
& RBN)...but for now I'd really like to draw a line under this as I have quite a 
lot of work to do tying up the final loose ends of our own club's /P NFD entry!

To those of you who are participating in NFD I look forward to working you, and 
to those who aren't - why not come on and give out a few points to the UK 
portables?

73,




Quin G3WRR
NFD Adjudicator  


----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Ken Eastty <ken.g3lvp at btinternet.com>
To: "uk-contest at contesting.com" <uk-contest at contesting.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 1 June, 2011 22:20:23
Subject: [UK-CONTEST] Fwd: Re: NFD

The following objection has been sent to the HF CC via Quin:

The members of the G5BK/P NFD team, wish to register a formal and strong 
objection to the decision decision to permit the use of RBN and skimmers 
in the restricted section of HF NFD for the following reasons:

1.  The very short notice given for, as we see it, the change to the 
rules.  This gives groups not already prepared to use such technology 
(and we believe there will be many) very little time to benefit from the 
change.  This, we argue, is unfair.

2.  The means by which the change was promulgated.  We believe that not 
all groups monitor the contest reflector, so there will be some who will 
not have heard about the change.  Again, unfair.

3.    The change does not fit with the "no second (stand-alone) 
receiver" rule in the Restricted Section.  If we can now use RBN and 
skimmer, why not a second receiver for the latter provides, in general 
terms, much the same function as the former.  A totally inconsistent 
decision, we argue.

Just to make it clear, we are not against change.  For instance, we 
would welcome the ability to be able to have a second receiver available 
so that we could involve more club members in the event, and especially 
so that we could introduce more club members to the attractions of the 
event. Neither are we against the changes that new technology bring. But 
we do strongly believe that such changes must be introduced in a 
considered, timely, consistent manner and promulgated well ahead of the 
event so that groups can properly benefit from the changes.

73,
Derek G3NKS
Chairman
Cheltenham Amateur Radio Association

Forwarded by G3LVP
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