[UK-CONTEST] Amplifier Advice ACOM 2000's

David g3yyd at btinternet.com
Wed Jan 25 12:02:39 PST 2012 

Chris

 

Sorry to disagree with you. I have been a RTTY contester since the early
70s. As well as being a RTTY rag chewer.

 

I have used various rigs and all of them have been able to run at full power
on RTTY. The first was a Drake T4XC which in those days ran happily at
150watts DC input, which was the maximum power allowed then. The original PA
valves were still in use when I sold it after 26 years. Then I had a
FT1000MP with built in mains PSU that ran happily at 100 watts out as do the
K3s I now have.  None of these rigs has had a PA device failure.

 

I am just wondering what rigs you have used that emitted smoke? Must be
poorly designed.

 

The use of an amplifier is required with the rigs I use to be able to run
maximum licence power. Unfortunately maximum licence power means I am at a
5.75dB competitive disadvantage when competing with EI (1500 watts in
contests), USA, Canada and many other countries. 

 

I suggest the BARTG March contest rules are changed to have a 400 watts
power limit for entrants in the Expert class to enable a level playing field
against the likes of K4GMH. He came 1st in 2010 and 2011 while I came 3rd
and 4th.  However enforcement is not a realistic  possibility so maybe not.
A better solution is to campaign for a 1500 watts power output limit for the
UK even if it is restricted to contests only.

 

73 David G3YYD

 

From: Christopher Plummer [mailto:plummerc42 at hotmail.com] 
Sent: 25 January 2012 16:45
To: g3yyd at btinternet.com; uk-contest at contesting.com
Subject: RE: [UK-CONTEST] Amplifier Advice ACOM 2000's

 

David,
 
Your original comment did not make it clear that you took listening time
(cooling time) into account, however, if you have a rig capable of running
100w out, then it is wise to derate this by to least 70W when running RTTY.
Even short periods of tune up can cause the rig to emit smoke.  Try it and
see.
 
The only reason I would see to run a linear on such as BARTG contests is to
bring your derated rig output back to a reasonable level within your license
terms, please don't run kilowatts BECAUSE YOU (think) YOU CAN, the rest of
us don't appreciate the sidebands and spatter.
 
73 de Chris G8APB
 

> From: g3yyd at btinternet.com
> To: UK-Contest at contesting.com
> Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2012 15:35:45 +0000
> Subject: Re: [UK-CONTEST] Amplifier Advice ACOM 2000's
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately you are incorrect. Duty cycle on amplifiers needs to be
> averaged over time due to the thermal inertia in the components used. In a
> contest calling CQ and listening for replies result in 50% duty cycle on
> RTTY.
> 
> 
> 
> CW is even lower typically in a contest about 30% duty cycle and for SSB
> lower still even with heavy RF clipping around 15 to 20%.
> 
> 
> 
> The hardest I work my amplifiers is in RTTY contests when I am dual CQing
on
> 2 bands the highest average duty cycle that can be achieved is 50%. One of
> my amplifiers is OK the other amplifier cut out after 3 hours - the
> transformer's thermal cut out disconnect the primary. I now have it in a
> box with fans blowing air over it and now copes with the whole of the
BARTG
> March contest and others like it.
> 
> 
> 
> More rubbish is talked about power ratings of amplifiers than any other
> area. If the amplifier can survive transmitting at full power RTTY for
> several minutes without over heating then the problem is not the RF device
> cooling. Then look at the transformer, which is a large weighty item of
> copper and iron with a long thermal time constant. This means the
> transformer can be overrun for a long period of time without failure as
long
> as it does not exceed the temperature rating of the insulation on the
> copper wire. On a modern transformer this is about 100c. The outside of
the
> transformer will be cooler as it is the winding in the middle that is the
> limiting factor. If the inner winding is at 100c then touching the outside
> would burn your fingers unless you are blowing air over the transformer.
> 
> 
> 
> Transformer VA ratings are specified by the manufacturer for still air.
> Blowing a lot of air around the transformer will increase that VA rating
by
> 50 to 100%. A 1000VA transformer with forced air cooling could have an
> average load of 2KVA. But the diode capacitor power supplies used in valve
> amps have very high peak current to charge the capacitor QED the VA rating
> needs to be higher than the RF devices DC power input. Could probably
> average about 1500 watts DC input for a forced cooled 1KVA transformer.
Note
> the average DC input power. Thus a 1000KVA still air rated transformer,
> forced air cooled used in a RTTY contest should be able to reliably
deliver
> about 1500 watts RF output for the whole contest but it would be running
the
> transformer at its limit. But without forced air cooling average input
would
> be around 750 watts or for RTTY contest 1500 watts in and about 800 watts
> of RF.
> 
> 
> 
> If your amplifier does not lend itself to transformer forced air cooling
> then use the transformer intelligently. Use the thermal inertia of the
> transformer by mixing say 30 minutes of Run with 30 minutes of S&P and
> better still monitor the transformer temperature and maximise its
> utilisation. 
> 
> 
> 
> 73 David G3YYD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Christopher Plummer [mailto:plummerc42 at hotmail.com] 
> Sent: 24 January 2012 23:03
> To: g3yyd at btinternet.com; uk-contest at contesting.com
> Subject: RE: [UK-CONTEST] Amplifier Advice ACOM 2000's
> 
> 
> 
> David,
> 
> Sorry to be pedantic, but RTTY is 100% Duty cycle, its CW thats around
50%.
> 
> So always derate your linear for Data modes.
> 
> Dont forget to try a toe in the water of HF RTTY this weekend in the BARTG
> RTTY Contest, its sounds like bedlam, but its actually fairly gentlemanly
> (at times at least).
> 
> Chris G8APB
> BARTG Awards Manager
> 
> 
> > From: g3yyd at btinternet.com
> > To: UK-Contest at contesting.com
> > Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 22:03:31 +0000
> > Subject: Re: [UK-CONTEST] Amplifier Advice ACOM 2000's
> > 
> > The Acom 2000 was designed to run 1500 watts continuous carrier output
for
> > hours on end. So it can be run on RTTY contesting with its circa 50%
duty
> > cycle with a huge reserve. 
> > 
> > Most amplifiers being so called under run the only bit you are under
> running
> > is the transformer. Half power out will dissipate almost the same power
in
> > the PA devices as running full power. However if the transformer is
> > deliberately fan cooled will make a huge difference to its power
> capability
> > compared to still air.
> > 
> > 73 David
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: uk-contest-bounces at contesting.com
> > [mailto:uk-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim Balls
> > Sent: 24 January 2012 20:24
> > To: uk-contest at contesting.com
> > Subject: Re: [UK-CONTEST] Amplifier Advice ACOM 2000's
> > 
> > Most of the video's on you tube I've seen of contest operations have the
> > amps running flat out!!
> > 
> > If you got it, flaunt it ;0)
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bob Harrison
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 7:15 PM
> > To: uk-contest at contesting.com
> > Subject: Re: [UK-CONTEST] Amplifier Advice ACOM 2000's
> > 
> > My Merc is governed to 155MPH...... of course I take it to the limit
> > everyday
> > 
> > 73 Bob G4UJS
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: uk-contest-bounces at contesting.com [mailto:uk-contest- 
> > > bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of David Honey
> > > Sent: 24 January 2012 18:53
> > > To: uk-contest at contesting.com
> > > Subject: Re: [UK-CONTEST] Amplifier Advice ACOM 2000's
> > >
> > > On 2012-01-24 16:51, Ken Eastty wrote:
> > > > 5. ACOM 2000, friends and contest groups use these (under-run of 
> > > > course in the UK)
> > > >
> > > > Under-run? Pull the other one.
> > > >
> > > > Contest entries from UK stations using Linears capable of running 
> > > > more than 1kW (or much less on 4m) should be disallowed.
> > > > I notice that some operators are very reticent when it comes to 
> > > > telling what amplifier they use.
> > > >
> > > An amplifier that is rated at 1kw is rarely rated for high duty 
> > > cycles, and for contest use you want to be sure the amplifier can run 
> > > for an extended period without overheating. Using a 1kw amplifier at 
> > > 400w achieves that. I don't buy the argument that just because some 
> > > one has the equipment to do something illegal automatically makes them

> > > guilty of using it in that manner.
> > > It reminds me of the joke of an accused being charged with a crime and

> > > then asking the judge to also charge him with rape. After all, he had 
> > > the equipment. :-) _______________________________________________
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> > > UK-Contest at contesting.com
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> > 
> > 
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> > 
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