[UK-CONTEST] UKAC Contests

Tue Sep 11 10:19:10 EDT 2012

Hi Robert

Have to disagree with your comments re the UKAC being too long at 2.5 hours!
I am active on 6/4/2/70/23 UKACs every Tuesday (not missed a single one
since January 2011 to date & support as many weekend and "other" contests on
VHF / UHF as I can.)

Far from it - 2.5 hours is about perfect. Start at a nice time - home from
work, evening meal, get the mast up etc. When I did a lot of /P it was a
struggle to get to my "perch" and set up in time for the start but still
possible. Finish at 2230 just in time for winding everything down.

As with all RSGB contests (if you're a GM) The last half an hour is usually
the best.....everyone remembers they have a rotator & starts looking for
distant contacts. Some weekend contests I can come on for the last hour in
24 hours and work as many as I would have sitting 6 or 24 hours! 2.5/3 hours
is probably the perfect duration for ALL of the contest Tuesdays or at
Weekends!

Now, AX section and the use of internet based cluster / KST. Prior to this
section being made available I sat EVERY contest listening to anything up to
100 amateurs on 2M who rarely, if ever, beamed this direction - If I worked
30 stations I was doing well. Since the inception of the AX section I work
as many as 2 or 3 times the stations I did on ALL bands.....many of whom
NEVER tried to work anyone north of 83/93. Even with access to KST / Cluster
there are still MANY stations who are perfectly audible for the whole of a
given contest who NEVER try north, sometimes calling CQ for 10/15 minutes
with no takers whilst GMs TRY to raise them!

For some of us it is the ONLY way to attract many of the stations who
inanely sit and work everyone in their highly populated local square and the
one next door - where is the "skill" in that? Furthermore those in the AX
class are only competing with one another, they pose no "risk" to others in
the other classes & their points don't count to club scores, so where's the
problem?

We've a nice balance now. If you don't want to use KST etc and do it all "Au
natural" fine - there are three classes to participate in. If, like me, it's
the distance / squares you are keen to work, AX is the place to be. Not
every class suits every individual operator / set up.

While I'm up on my orange box - can I ask people, when choosing a frequency
to work on, please consider there may be someone "up north" already there
and at least have a look / scream in that direction before calling CQ only
to find 5 minutes later your local stations are calling them ousting you off
your chosen frequency. End of groan.

Cheers

Andy

GM4JR
IO85FB - just north of Carlisle and nowhere near Edinburgh! :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: UK-Contest [mailto:uk-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of
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Sent: 11 September 2012 00:27
To: uk-contest at contesting.com
Subject: UK-Contest Digest, Vol 117, Issue 12

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Today's Topics:

   1. Sprints. (Robert)
   2. UKAC Contests. (Robert)
   3. Re: UKAC Contests. (RONALD PRICE)
   4. Re: UKAC Contests. (Roger Thawley)
   5. Re: UKAC Contests. (Robert Chipperfield)
   6. UKAC Contests (Llewellyn)
   7. Re: UKAC Contests. (Peter Burden)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 14:00:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert <m0oro at aim.com>
To: uk-contest at contesting.com
Subject: [UK-CONTEST] Sprints.
Message-ID: <8CF5D953DA96362-10B0-9F21 at webmail-m096.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

This years one hour Sprints are working well, a definite improvement.  Good
decision by the Committee.

73,
Robert. M0JRB/G8BUN.

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 15:23:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: Robert <m0oro at aim.com>
To: uk-contest at contesting.com
Subject: [UK-CONTEST] UKAC Contests.
Message-ID: <8CF5DA0DBA8E6A1-10B0-B2D5 at webmail-m096.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

The Tuesday night UKAC contests taking 2.5 hours are too long. Most contacts
are made in the first hour and then it tails off. Think also of the /P
stations having to pack up at 10.30 pm. A time reduction should be
considered.

Use of clusters and chat rooms should be prohibited for all UKAC contests.
Using the INTERNET to secure a contact is NOT what radio contest operating
is about. Not all contestants have an Internet connection available during a
contest. 

This series of contests is good for individual scoring, but not for clubs,
how can you have a serious club contest when teams vary in numbers, of
course a club with say 10 entrants will beat a club with say 2 entrants.
Where is the fair competition in that ?  Therefore limit the team size to
specific numbers. Then different leagues for different team sizes. 
Four and two operator teams would be appropriate.

73,
Robert. M0JRB/G8BUN.

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 21:47:13 +0100
From: RONALD PRICE <ron.price2 at virgin.net>
To: uk-contest at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [UK-CONTEST] UKAC Contests.
Message-ID:
	<CAOemLw=uoQofgCFaA9GYCPEHXoV=o_d17nhfH2m1k27SNf59+A at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I agree totally with Robert's first statement especially the finishing time
of 10.30pm.
I only ever consider going portable during the lighter evenings of May, June
and July and even then I usually pack up at about 9.45 in order to get home
by 10.30.
Portable locations by their nature are usually very remote and I feel very
uneasy being all alone at that time of night with a car full of expensive
radio gear!
I am sure that a starting time of 7.30 and a finish at 9.30 would encourage
much more participation by portable stations.

Best wishes to all.

Ron, GW4EVX

On 10/09/2012, Robert <m0oro at aim.com> wrote:
>
>
> The Tuesday night UKAC contests taking 2.5 hours are too long. Most 
> contacts are made in the first hour and then it tails off. Think also 
> of the /P stations having to pack up at 10.30 pm. A time reduction 
> should be considered.
>
> Use of clusters and chat rooms should be prohibited for all UKAC contests.
> Using the INTERNET to secure a contact is NOT what radio contest 
> operating is about. Not all contestants have an Internet connection 
> available during a contest.
>
> This series of contests is good for individual scoring, but not for 
> clubs, how can you have a serious club contest when teams vary in 
> numbers, of course a club with say 10 entrants will beat a club with say 2
entrants.
> Where is the fair competition in that ?  Therefore limit the team size 
> to specific numbers. Then different leagues for different team sizes.
> Four and two operator teams would be appropriate.
>
> 73,
> Robert. M0JRB/G8BUN.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> UK-Contest mailing list
> UK-Contest at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/uk-contest
>

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 22:21:47 +0100
From: Roger Thawley <roger.thawley at sky.com>
To: <uk-contest at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [UK-CONTEST] UKAC Contests.
Message-ID: <A4B11F3697FE44CE92FAC7B5A89BB1A8 at radio>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

During a busy 2M AC, we (M0GVG/P) can fill an entire 2.5 Hr contest with
contacts, it would be a shame to miss out on that, however, some of the
other contests could loose 30 mins, without it making much difference, for
the most part. I guess there might be something to be said for finishing
early enough to grab a quick pint on the way home!

-----Original Message-----
From: UK-Contest [mailto:uk-contest-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of
Robert
Sent: 10 September 2012 20:23
To: uk-contest at contesting.com
Subject: [UK-CONTEST] UKAC Contests.

The Tuesday night UKAC contests taking 2.5 hours are too long. Most contacts
are made in the first hour and then it tails off. Think also of the /P
stations having to pack up at 10.30 pm. A time reduction should be
considered.

Use of clusters and chat rooms should be prohibited for all UKAC contests.
Using the INTERNET to secure a contact is NOT what radio contest operating
is about. Not all contestants have an Internet connection available during a
contest. 

This series of contests is good for individual scoring, but not for clubs,
how can you have a serious club contest when teams vary in numbers, of
course a club with say 10 entrants will beat a club with say 2 entrants.
Where is the fair competition in that ?  Therefore limit the team size to
specific numbers. Then different leagues for different team sizes. 
Four and two operator teams would be appropriate.

73,
Robert. M0JRB/G8BUN.

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UK-Contest at contesting.com
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 22:25:43 +0100
From: Robert Chipperfield <robert at syxis.co.uk>
To: RONALD PRICE <ron.price2 at virgin.net>
Cc: uk-contest at contesting.com
Subject: Re: [UK-CONTEST] UKAC Contests.
Message-ID: <504E5AD7.20806 at syxis.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi all,

While I think the argument that the UKACs are too long may have been true a
couple of years ago, I think it's much less true now. Here's the
(claimed) hourly rates for the last four 2m UKACs for G3PYE/P for 2000-2100,
2100-2200 and 2200-2230:

September: 61, 43, 52
August: 54, 56, 34
July: 23, 53, 48
June: 47, 30, 20

Yes, there's generally a drop-off later in the evening, but it's not exactly
at the point where you're falling asleep in front of the radio (like 2m AFS
was for the last two hours, for example!).  I think I'm right in saying that
entries are still on the rise, and with that, it's becoming harder each
month to work everyone in the time available, so a shortening of the contest
duration seems unnecessary.

Regarding the end time for portables, while I can understand the unease
about being in a remote location on your own, I'd simply advocate doing so
with a friend instead! It's obviously how we operate, and I believe G5MW/P,
G8MKC/P, M0NUT/P and no doubt others do likewise - it's a nice social
occasion.

(For the record, I also find the 2000 local start time convenient as it
allows time to get to site and set up after work, whereas an earlier start
would make this a little tighter for those who do go out and set up gear
every week...)

As for the club aspect of the scoring, that's a tougher problem. On the one
hand, most clubs (the Camb-Hams included) can't hope to compete with those
at the top of the table who have huge numbers of entrants, which is a shame.
On the other hand, it's wonderful to hear all the activity that the likes of
Bolton have generated, and I wouldn't want to swap that for any certificate!
In a contest that labels itself an "activity" 
contest, it seems that making the rules err on the side of generating more
activity is a good call.

Maybe it could be a second table of results: the current table of overall
club scores, and another as Robert suggested taking the top four entrants
from each club, as in AFS? Then again, maybe that's a niche the AFS contests
already serve, and the UKACs are just a good excuse to get loads of people
on air for a few hours...

73,
Rob, M0VFC

On 10/09/2012 21:47, RONALD PRICE wrote:
> I agree totally with Robert's first statement especially the finishing
> time of 10.30pm.
> I only ever consider going portable during the lighter evenings of
> May, June and July and even then I usually pack up at about 9.45 in
> order to get home by 10.30.
> Portable locations by their nature are usually very remote and I feel
> very uneasy being all alone at that time of night with a car full of
> expensive radio gear!
> I am sure that a starting time of 7.30 and a finish at 9.30 would
> encourage much more participation by portable stations.
>
> Best wishes to all.
>
> Ron, GW4EVX
>
>
> On 10/09/2012, Robert <m0oro at aim.com> wrote:
>>
>> The Tuesday night UKAC contests taking 2.5 hours are too long. Most
contacts
>> are made in the first hour and then it tails off. Think also of the /P
>> stations having to pack up at 10.30 pm. A time reduction should be
>> considered.
>>
>> Use of clusters and chat rooms should be prohibited for all UKAC
contests.
>> Using the INTERNET to secure a contact is NOT what radio contest
operating
>> is about. Not all contestants have an Internet connection available
during a
>> contest.
>>
>> This series of contests is good for individual scoring, but not for
clubs,
>> how can you have a serious club contest when teams vary in numbers, of
>> course a club with say 10 entrants will beat a club with say 2 entrants.
>> Where is the fair competition in that ?  Therefore limit the team size to
>> specific numbers. Then different leagues for different team sizes.
>> Four and two operator teams would be appropriate.
>>
>> 73,
>> Robert. M0JRB/G8BUN.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> UK-Contest mailing list
>> UK-Contest at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/uk-contest
>>
> _______________________________________________
> UK-Contest mailing list
> UK-Contest at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/uk-contest

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2012 23:58:04 +0100
From: "Llewellyn" <tony at llewellyns.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <uk-contest at contesting.com>
Subject: [UK-CONTEST] UKAC Contests
Message-ID: <71840785CBC54547B6B560FE66630A46 at LlewellynPC>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

As a regular entrant to these contests, usually from home but occasionally /
P my opinion is that the duration is about right.

The start time allows me to get home from work (usually around 18.30) have
some food and get the shack (literally) warmed up and the mast pumped up by
20.00.
To go /P before this would be impossible.

Being in IO83 means that I often cant hear the more distant IO91 / JO01
stations until after 22.00 when the QSO rate from other local stations slows
and gaps appear in the local spectrum, either that or those distant stations
turn their beams inland after the Europeans finish at 22.00. Whatever the
reason I generally pick up 25 to 30 % of points in the last half hour.

I agree that /P operation alone on a hill after dark is not ideal and I also
usually pack up early except in June / July despite points available late in
the contest.

I do not represent a club in the contests but think that it would be more
equitable to have fixed team sizes and then split them into A,B and even C
teams for the bigger clubs, with the members of each team being selected by
each month by their results, thus creating an intra club rivalry to get into
the A team each month.

73
Tony G8ONK

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 00:26:38 +0100
From: Peter Burden <peter.burden at gmail.com>
To: Robert Chipperfield <robert at syxis.co.uk>
Cc: uk-contest at contesting.com, RONALD PRICE <ron.price2 at virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [UK-CONTEST] UKAC Contests.
Message-ID:
	<CA+g0+ofo0JqV_Sqb5axEawVh1O-sRdwKq6-VobVu_Xos=JbE1Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I cannot agree with the suggestion that the UKACs are too long. I think
they are about right given the levels of activity as pointed out by M0VFC
and represent a pleasant evening's activity. I must admit to being a fixed
station operator and when 2230 rolls round I just switch everything off,
lock up the garden shed and am home in time for the end of the TV news -
unless I end up ragchewing. I suppose the contest could be organised on the
basis that operators could choose any 2.5 hours operation in a 3 or 4 hour
time frame, even, perhaps allowing operation for the entire 4 hours with
post-operation selection of the 2.5 hours of log to submit.

The point about Internet use is worth further discussion. Of course, active
use of the Internet to advertise one's operations during the contest is
only allowed for AX section entrants except on 1296 MHz and higher. This
does not exclude operators using the Internet passively to read others'
advertisements or to monitor the whereabouts of possible signal scattering
aircraft during the contest.  Whether this is desirable is another matter.

Both the timing and Internet issues are related to the choice of portable
vs fixed station operation and there is something to be said for separate
sections for portable and fixed stations as used to be the case in VHF/UHF
contests in years gone by. However there are already 4 sections for
contestants to chose from and I don't think further sections would be
desirable. It is interesting that well set up fixed stations often seem to
score more highly than portable operations.

As far as scoring is concerned, again I see little need for change. It is
fine for the non-club single operator such as myself and is equally good
for clubs/teams who are encouraged to recruit although there may be
concerns about the geographical spread of some club membership lists.

It is, I think, clear that the UKACs have been a great success in promoting
activity and should be left in their present form unless there is a strong
case for change made out by a significant number of participants. But
please keep it simple.

73 Peter Burden G3UBX

On 10 September 2012 22:25, Robert Chipperfield <robert at syxis.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> While I think the argument that the UKACs are too long may have been true
> a couple of years ago, I think it's much less true now. Here's the
> (claimed) hourly rates for the last four 2m UKACs for G3PYE/P for
> 2000-2100, 2100-2200 and 2200-2230:
>
> September: 61, 43, 52
> August: 54, 56, 34
> July: 23, 53, 48
> June: 47, 30, 20
>
> Yes, there's generally a drop-off later in the evening, but it's not
> exactly at the point where you're falling asleep in front of the radio
> (like 2m AFS was for the last two hours, for example!).  I think I'm right
> in saying that entries are still on the rise, and with that, it's becoming
> harder each month to work everyone in the time available, so a shortening
> of the contest duration seems unnecessary.
>
> Regarding the end time for portables, while I can understand the unease
> about being in a remote location on your own, I'd simply advocate doing so
> with a friend instead! It's obviously how we operate, and I believe
G5MW/P,
> G8MKC/P, M0NUT/P and no doubt others do likewise - it's a nice social
> occasion.
>
> (For the record, I also find the 2000 local start time convenient as it
> allows time to get to site and set up after work, whereas an earlier start
> would make this a little tighter for those who do go out and set up gear
> every week...)
>
> As for the club aspect of the scoring, that's a tougher problem. On the
> one hand, most clubs (the Camb-Hams included) can't hope to compete with
> those at the top of the table who have huge numbers of entrants, which is
a
> shame. On the other hand, it's wonderful to hear all the activity that the
> likes of Bolton have generated, and I wouldn't want to swap that for any
> certificate! In a contest that labels itself an "activity" contest, it
> seems that making the rules err on the side of generating more activity is
> a good call.
>
> Maybe it could be a second table of results: the current table of overall
> club scores, and another as Robert suggested taking the top four entrants
> from each club, as in AFS? Then again, maybe that's a niche the AFS
> contests already serve, and the UKACs are just a good excuse to get loads
> of people on air for a few hours...
>
> 73,
> Rob, M0VFC
>
>
> On 10/09/2012 21:47, RONALD PRICE wrote:
>
>> I agree totally with Robert's first statement especially the finishing
>> time of 10.30pm.
>> I only ever consider going portable during the lighter evenings of
>> May, June and July and even then I usually pack up at about 9.45 in
>> order to get home by 10.30.
>> Portable locations by their nature are usually very remote and I feel
>> very uneasy being all alone at that time of night with a car full of
>> expensive radio gear!
>> I am sure that a starting time of 7.30 and a finish at 9.30 would
>> encourage much more participation by portable stations.
>>
>> Best wishes to all.
>>
>> Ron, GW4EVX
>>
>>
>> On 10/09/2012, Robert <m0oro at aim.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The Tuesday night UKAC contests taking 2.5 hours are too long. Most
>>> contacts
>>> are made in the first hour and then it tails off. Think also of the /P
>>> stations having to pack up at 10.30 pm. A time reduction should be
>>> considered.
>>>
>>> Use of clusters and chat rooms should be prohibited for all UKAC
>>> contests.
>>> Using the INTERNET to secure a contact is NOT what radio contest
>>> operating
>>> is about. Not all contestants have an Internet connection available
>>> during a
>>> contest.
>>>
>>> This series of contests is good for individual scoring, but not for
>>> clubs,
>>> how can you have a serious club contest when teams vary in numbers, of
>>> course a club with say 10 entrants will beat a club with say 2 entrants.
>>> Where is the fair competition in that ?  Therefore limit the team size
to
>>> specific numbers. Then different leagues for different team sizes.
>>> Four and two operator teams would be appropriate.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Robert. M0JRB/G8BUN.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> UK-Contest mailing list
>>> UK-Contest at contesting.com
>>>
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sting.com/mailman/listinfo/uk-contest>
>>>
>>>  ______________________________**_________________
>> UK-Contest mailing list
>> UK-Contest at contesting.com
>>
http://lists.contesting.com/**mailman/listinfo/uk-contest<http://lists.conte
sting.com/mailman/listinfo/uk-contest>
>>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> UK-Contest mailing list
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