[VHFcontesting] poll cont...

Mon Nov 6 22:46:44 EST 2006

Ok I should make a couple of things clear.

For clarification I see a grid circler as someone who cicles with another 
rover.
A captive rover as one who only works select stations.
And my defiinition of my biggest complaint is the Captive circler. That 
being the rovers we have on the west coast who only works themselves or at 
least a very high majority of themselves.

To say they captive rove  it to score points in a unpopulated area is a weak 
defence.  IE the ARRL uses the conests to justify spectrum use to keep it 
out of the hands of ABC telecom. Therefore should the ARRL use the case of 3 
vans working each other in the line of sight in the nether regions of New 
Mexico as a case to keep spectrum?  Where is the scientific value?  If I was 
in charge of stealing these bands at ABC telecom and I knew this was the 
ARRL's case I would show the pictures of these vans working each other to 
the FCC and point out they can talk to each other with frs radios or 
flashlights for morse code and save a ton of money.

Also the lack of population issue  is a choice.  I may never go to DN32 
because the lay of the land and the lack of population makes it impractical. 
  There are parts of North America that can not be reached by tropo 2 meters 
by any home station. Lets face it I need to stay withing 350 miles of 
poulations to talk to anyone with antennas mounted to a roof rack.  Well 500 
miles may be my best not counting e-skip on 2 meters. (now that was a good 
contest).

That being said there is a operator technique in captive roving. Quickness, 
logistics and fatique and perhaps more.  This is why I wont say ban it 
anymore. I once quit over the captive circling issue after some in the ARRL 
said they would fix it and did not.

I am not whinning because I can never win. But its distressing to make more 
qsos with more people over greater distances and then have someone post a 
score exponetially bigger that he racked up with 2 buddies all on his own 
gear out in Armorllo. No offence Texans, we all know the grid squares are 
bigger in Texas.

In 1980 performance drugs were not illegal in sports. But someone drew up 
rules for it because science came along and made it possible.  In 1983 (when 
I was 12) the grids came. I gotta think that was an improvement for vhf, if 
not perfect.  The updating of rules is natural as the situation changes.

I say make it its own catagory or better yet  give them thier own contest on 
any given 33 hour weekend period. If they had thier own contest I would try 
to find a partner to rove with. Maybe 2.  I would beat them or I would try.

How?

I would do all the circling then I wouyd work everyone else out there.  
Everone else could follow us as we moved about the countyside and work us. I 
would later send qsl card to people who needed them.

This would force my competitors to work other people in a contest to get 
more points. Or they could come on here and complain that its unfair that 
I'm working everyone I can hear.  But if they worked a whole bunch of 
others, then the bands would be active in a much more meaningful way.

Meanwhile the Arrl's rules motivate some to do the opposit.  Thank you to 
the majority of the rovers who dont.

Again I say it should be its own catagory, if not its own contest. After all 
is it really a contest if 2 or 3 people generate all the points between 
themselves to win?

>From: Paul Kiesel <k7cw at yahoo.com>
>To: frank bechdoldt <k3uhf at hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] poll cont...
>Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 10:18:58 -0800 (PST)
>
>Frank,
>
>You probably stated it the way it is. However,
>exploitation of the rules is legal. Those grid
>circlers were not out to satisfy non-circlers, that is
>a fact. You may not be aware of it, but the area of
>West Texas where they conducted their effort has very
>few active VHFers. I know this because I used to live
>there. So, I doubt that they ignored many calls, if
>any. Besides, I have called hundreds of stations over
>the years, and tens of stations during a single
>contest where they did not return the call for
>whatever reason. This is not a reason for anybody to
>get upset. These things happen in a contest. When they
>do, you just move on. If they did ignore calls, it was
>mean, but nothing else. As far as grid circlers
>operating in the spirit of the contest goes... Who
>knows whether they considered themselves within the
>spirit of the contest? One has to assume that they
>did, considering the fact that they conformed to all
>the rules. And, it is arguable as to whether there is
>merit in what they did.
>
>You might be correct about there needing to be a
>separate category, but not necessarily about
>eliminating grid circling. As I said, this situation
>will not be easily rectified. It's going to piss some
>people off, regardless of what ARRL ends up doing. Of
>course, it won't be the first time. Whatever the ARRL
>does, though, it will be to make their life easier,
>not ours.
>
>73,
>Paul
>
>--- frank bechdoldt <k3uhf at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > The diference is unlike you who goes out portable
> > and sets up a good station
> > and I who mounts respectable antennas to my vehicle
> > and we are able to work
> > each other 400 miles apart as I change grid squares.
> > What you and I do and
> > others is in the spirit of the contest.  Exploiting
> > a rule to generate
> > points with 2 other vehicles with equipment you also
> > own is not cheating.
> > Its exploitation of the rules.
> >
> > Read the comments about his caravan qrming people
> > and refusing to work
> > others, randomly selected people from the poll
> > stated this.
> >
> > Buying 3 cars of gear and working people 500 feet
> > away is no great feat nor
> > a reson for us to keep our spectum.
> >
> > It is a feat, it needs its own catagory.
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > >From: Paul Kiesel <k7cw at yahoo.com>
> > >To: frank bechdoldt <k3uhf at hotmail.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] poll cont...
> > >Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 21:25:39 -0800 (PST)
> > >
> > >Hey Frank,
> > >
> > >I won't run this into the ground because I know
> > you're
> > >pained about it. But Wayne Overbeck and his
> > buddies, I
> > >assure you, were not out after any Texas
> > certificate.
> > >Wayne is a cantankerous soul, but he does what he
> > does
> > >to be the best, to win, given the rules that exist.
> > I
> > >don't need to defend him; he's perfectly capable of
> > >defending himself, and has done just that many
> > times
> > >for many reasons. Historically, Wayne Overbeck has
> > >been a real contributor to the advancement of
> > VHF/UHF
> > >amateur radio. That's the way I like to look at it.
> > >The problem about rovers is not people like Wayne
> > >Overbeck. The problem is that not enough thought
> > was
> > >given to what the overall rover rules should be.
> > The
> > >big flaw was that they felt they had to invent
> > >something so that guys wouldn't travel to multiple
> > >grids and submit separate entries for each grid.
> > Well,
> > >how in the hell did that come about. Well, when
> > they
> > >created grid locators, they didn't give much
> > thought
> > >as to what would happen if guys decided to travel
> > to
> > >different grids to give them out in contests! So,
> > it's
> > >a sloppy scenario from day one of grid locators,
> > back
> > >in 1983!!! Now, they have to deal with folks who
> > feel
> > >that people like Wayne Overbeck are cheating or
> > >operating in an unfair way. So, that's it. It ain't
> > as
> > >simple as some might think. And it ain't easily
> > fixed,
> > >either.
> > >
> > >73,
> > >Paul, K7CW
> > >
> > >--- frank bechdoldt <k3uhf at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > IE  Rovers who carpet
> > > > bag in Texas from California dont need to win
> > > > Texas's prize.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
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