[VHFcontesting] Great idea -- Kudos to Grid Pirates

Thu Dec 4 19:39:07 EST 2008

You guys kill me. You know, it's awfully hard to sit here reading about all this conjured up evilness, deception and blatant disregard for the "intent" of the rules without jumping in. So, here I am, since I couldn't hold back any longer. I know there are many others who agree with me, but I would be willing to bet that they can't see the point in getting into it on here now when people continue to not understand after all these months of bellyaching.

Publishing the logs will do absolutely nothing towards ridding you of the tactics of the grid circlers and other "offenders." It's obvious what they are doing. And it's equally as obvious that they are within the rules as they do it. Seeing their logs won't change that. Those who are after "burning" the infamous grid circlers, captive rovers, etc. aren't going to get their way. The problems clearly lie within the contest rules. This is why the term of the VUAC has been extended. The ARRL knows that things need to be tended to. Each VHF contester has a representative on the VUAC. The list of members is on the ARRL web site. If you haven't communicated yet with your representative on the committee, you ought to consider doing that instead of letting yourself to get all heated up unnecessarily. As far as catching guys who fill their logs with "contacts" that they didn't make goes, forget it. Most people don't inherently cheat and those who do would cheat
 never come close to winning a contest, anyway. Put another way: Most who score well in contests find greater gratification from competing honorably than they would from winning. These people, in my opinion, would not cheat in order to win.

Regarding the real topic, open logs:
I think there should be open logs. After all, this is a competition. One could ask how he should be able to modify his own tactics in order to compete better if he couldn't analyze his competition's tactics. You'd have to be able to see who they worked and when on each band. Knowing the transmission modes they used might turn out to be of great value, I think. 

I think that if the ARRL has good reasons for not publishing the logs, they should state them in the rules and then everybody move on. (I have a hunch that this situation has a lot more to do with the expense of it than it does with anything else.)

Bottom line: Guys aren't winning contests because of cheating. You're not going to make anything better by trying to catch them. If you don't like what's going on, call your VUAC rep and be done with it.

K7CW

--- On Thu, 12/4/08, k4gun at comcast.net <k4gun at comcast.net> wrote:

> From: k4gun at comcast.net <k4gun at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Great idea -- Kudos to Grid Pirates
> To: aa5jg at yahoo.com
> Cc: "Todd Sprinkmann" <sprinkies at excel.net>, vhfcontesting at contesting.com
> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 10:50 AM
> I wonder the same thing.  Take our grid circle buddies for
> example.  The winner of the limited rover category had
> exactly 77 QSOs in each of the 4 microwave bands in which he
> operated.  Is there any doubt as to how that happened? 
> Nope.  We all know his log for each band will reveal that
> he only worked the same small group during the contest. 
> Posting his actual log will not change that. 
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing that it might accomplish is to bring to
> light some other practices.  For instance, its possible
> that point-hungry stations could be looking through old
> callsign books and picking out calls they know are not
> operating in VHF contests.  They could be entering those
> into their logs because they know there is no penalty for
> having a unique call in their log.  The people at the ARRL
> have no way to verify that a QSO was or was not made.  If
> the logs were public, somebody who knows those stations may
> call foul.  If there are multiple cases like this, it could
> be very ugly for those who get caught. 
> 
> 
> 
> As I write this, I hope I'm not touching a third rail
> here.  I have no idea if such a practice ever happens or if
> it does, how common it is.  I would hope its rare at
> worst.  Making logs public would reveal this pretty
> quickly.  It wouldn't change a thing about our rover
> discussion but could heap a lot of shame on unethical
> stations. 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve 
> 
> K4GUN/R 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "John Geiger" <aa5jg at yahoo.com> 
> To: vhfcontesting at contesting.com, "Todd
> Sprinkmann" <sprinkies at excel.net> 
> Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 6:28:31 PM GMT +00:00
> Casablanca / Monrovia 
> Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Great idea -- Kudos to Grid
> Pirates 
> 
> I do have one question about the open logs:  A couple of
> weeks ago we have a long discussion about all of the
> problems with contesting (especially roving) with everyone
> saying we need open access to logs.  Now we have it in a
> limited way (so far) and I want to know: 
> 
>  "How does having open access to logs fix any of
> these problems?" 
> 
> 73s John AA5JG 
> 
> 
> --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Todd Sprinkmann
> <sprinkies at excel.net> wrote: 
> 
> > From: Todd Sprinkmann <sprinkies at excel.net> 
> > Subject: [VHFcontesting] Great idea -- Kudos to Grid
> Pirates 
> > To: vhfcontesting at contesting.com 
> > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 11:28 AM 
> > I am also in favor of making ARRL VHF/UHF contest logs
> 
> > public, and I have let my VUAC rep know. 
> > 
> >    This is a great idea by the Grid Pirates and I
> will also 
> > submit 
> > what I can to their repository. 
> > 
> >    As the operator of well-attended SSB and FM nets
> on 144 
> > and 146 in the Midwest, I am always looking for ways
> to 
> > contact more potential VHF'ers, to let them know
> about 
> > the 
> > nets, and to increase overall activity on VHF.  Which
> may 
> > also help get new contesters on the air, or motivate 
> > veterans 
> > who have dropped out. 
> > 
> >    (Anyone who needs my net info is free to email me
> 
> > directly 
> > and I'll get you up to speed.  We're talking
> Wed. 
> > nights for 
> > SSB, and Thur. night for FM simplex.  SSB is capable
> of 
> > working from Ohio to Kansas City, MO) 
> > 
> >    Again, congrats to the Grid Pirates for taking
> the 
> > initiative on 
> > this.  No layered committees, no gnashing of teeth,
> just 
> > action. 
> > Well done. 
> > 
> >     73, 
> >     Todd   KC9BQA   EN63ao    40 N of Milwaukee 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
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> > VHFcontesting at contesting.com 
> >
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> 
> 
>        
> 
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