[VHFcontesting] Post-Contest Grid Square Queries

[Chet, N8RA]

I don't think there is any blanket objection to using technology or the
internet during contesting. 
It's a question about the nature of the "assistance". 

E.g. for a single op: 

If I go to qrz.com to look up the direction of a station I am hearing-
that's OK, no different than thumbing thru the callbook. 

If I look at an internet map of the aurora oval to see what's going on-
that's OK. 

If I look at a list of station calls and frequencies being spotted by
someone else, that is not OK.

If I go to ping jockey and see who is calling CQ or me or how much of my
info they've heard already, that is not OK. 

If MY spectrum sweep shows a new blip and I tune there, that is OK, it's MY
use of MY receiver.

If someone stops by on frequency to "help" me by telling me that rare
station XYZ is on frequency ABC, thank you for the thought, but that is not
OK for me to use that info. 

If a person tells me on the phone (or via his APRS) during the contest that
he is now in grid MNO, then that is not OK.

But some of these would be OK for a multiop station. 

Chet, N8RA


-----Original Message-----
From: vhfcontesting-bounces at contesting.com
[mailto:vhfcontesting-bounces at contesting.com] On Behalf Of Nate Duehr
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 6:36 PM
Cc: 'VHF Contest Reflector'
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Post-Contest Grid Square Queries

David Olean wrote:
>  I read the chess article on the web. Gosh there is a real parallel 
> there between the chess scenario, and the use of internet spotting etc 
> for single ops. If you use the internet then you are being assisted, 
> but no one will know without a judge in your shack. (usually)  I am 
> sure that the prop loggers are heavily used by all sorts of people 
> during contests. I would like to see no internet action for all
contesters, single op and multi op.
> It really takes the mystery out of the competition to have a prop 
> logger available. Sort of like using a chess program to analyze your 
> move beforehand.  Now we also have CW skimmer to deal with just like a 
> computer chess program! What will happen over the next few years in radio
contesting?
> At this rate, I hate to think about it.  An interesting book recently 
> read is "The Singularity is Near" by Ray Kurzweil. The next 25 years 
> will be like nothing else before in all of our endeavors.
> 
> 73
> Dave K1WHS

[Disclaimer: Don't take the long e-mail as looking like there's more emotion
to this posting than there is.  I just type wicked fast so I can put down
full thoughts in e-mails instead of three sentence conversations.]

There are many of us who've been using personal computers since prior to our
teenage years out here Dave, who only see the addition of the Net and
Information Technology as "extending the art".  We also love RF, but in the
end, RF without the Net these days is boring.  Want to get younger folks?
Tie in the Internet.

I groused about this a couple of years ago... I had set up APRS in my rover
and had shared with "techno-geeks" at work that they could follow my
progress on an online map, after my co-workers saw the stack on the back of
the Jeep.

I later found out that letting the APRS run, ignored, through any digis was
"self-spotting" and not allowed.  Thus, I had to tell my friends that wanted
to watch as spectators (and possible future hams) that they couldn't
participate in the radio "sport" I was enjoying.

Every other sport has spectators.  VHF contesting, the only thing folks
might be interested in watching is where you are and what you're working, if
they know anything about RF at all.

The rules have changed now for some rovers, but now the question long-term
has turned (in my mind) to the single operators.

Why can a multi-op use technology readily available and a single op can't?
Tradition?  Okay sure, I'll go with that.

But it's still weird to many of us who've used computers since childhood.
We don't see computers as "cheating" we see them as a useful addition to the
shack -- and we know in a real emergency we'd have to use them for that,
too.

Having a computer and knowing how to use it effectively to give useful
information during a contest are two different things.  And knowing when to
pay attention to the computer and when to pay attention to working/running a
high Q rate, etc... is more important than whether or not the computer is
feeding you information.

There's also interpretation -- not everyone knows what they're seeing even
when they're staring at a screen full of information.  It's a skill, a
different skill than RF operating, but still a skill that needs practice and
knowledge.

Not only that, but sometimes some operator's basic computer skills are
nonexistant, say -- like typing for one.  That skill comes with practice and
more typing and makes the person a better op, too.

The "information overload" of computers in the shack bothers a lot of people
either because they can't utilize the information correctly, or they feel
nostalgic about the days before such tools.  But those aren't great reasons
(they're okay, just not great) to keep computers and Internet out of
contesting.

"Messing with the computer" when the bands are open is fruitless, as all
good RF ops know.  But when conditions are poor, the multi-ops can do some
spotting and digging that the single-ops can't do.  Why is that?

If the single-op has a crappy station or doesn't know how to manage their
time effectively on the computer, they'll lose out just as much as they
would by not paying attention to what's going on on the radio.

Allowing more spotting/Internet use would actually turn out to be a huge
distraction for some who can't handle things like that.

The mystery is still there.  Just because the computer says everyone else is
making those contacts, you still don't know if your station can do it.  You
still have to make the QSO happen.

Just thoughts from the "I've had my own computer since I was 10 years old"
guy, who started becoming interested in tech during the 8-bit, 1 MHz home
systems, during the initial personal computer boom when Jobs and Woz were
still working out of their garage, and Gates hadn't yet gone to a sales
meeting with IBM to sell them stuff -- he hadn't even written yet at the
time of the meeting.

Nate WY0X
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