[VHFcontesting] VHFcontesting Digest, Vol 127, Issue 10
David Smith
w6te at msn.com
Tue Jul 16 17:58:01 EDT 2013
Hello,
To the question "does anyone actually take a Moxon portable or roving?" Yes, I do. I rove with my 6 meter Moxon in most VHF contests. A full size 3 element yagi is legally too large to turn while in motion. It overhangs the truck too far. After using a Moxon I would never go back to a HO loop.
73,
Dave - W6TE
> From: vhfcontesting-request at contesting.com
> Subject: VHFcontesting Digest, Vol 127, Issue 10
> To: vhfcontesting at contesting.com
> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 16:06:55 -0400
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Yagi vs Moxon (John Baranyi)
> 2. Re: Yagi vs Moxon (Paul Kiesel)
> 3. Fwd: Central States VHF Society Conference, Elk Grove
> Village, IL, 7/26-28 (Mark Thompson)
> 4. Moxon Yagi loopers roving (Rick R)
> 5. Mid-Atl States VHF Conference (Rick R)
> 6. Re: Moxon Yagi loopers roving (Bill Olson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 12:08:40 -0400
> From: John Baranyi <n8um at comcast.net>
> To: beamar <beamar at aol.com>
> Cc: vhfcontesting at contesting.com, vhf at w6yx.stanford.edu
> Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Yagi vs Moxon
> Message-ID: <DD63E15F-46E8-438E-BBCD-5A8AECDBAB39 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I used a Par Moxon for years as part of a 50 - 2304 setup in The mountains of Tennessee. It took 13 minutes to level and crank up (fold up). It only took 9 minutes to drop and stow when motivated by an approaching Thunderstorm...
> See pix at http://www.chuckmartin.com/VHFContest2003_3.htm they were taken as Hurricane Sandy had just past. Best DX with these antennas were WA7JTM in Arizona on 2 meters and best DX with this set up on 1296 was K2DRH on 1296 and W5LUA on 2304.
>
>
> John B. N8UM Oak Ridge, Tennessee
>
> On Jul 16, 2013, at 11:06 AM, beamar <beamar at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > When operating portable or roving, something you have to be concerned with is how easily can the antenna be damaged. For example, Loop Yagis are easier to bash up than linear Yagis. That is why I use an M2 for 1296, even though I am convinced that a Loop Yagi is the superior antenna. Has anybody on the list actually taken a Moxon portable or roving?
> > --
> > Buddy WB4OMG
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > VHFcontesting mailing list
> > VHFcontesting at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/vhfcontestingusedaPar a Par moxon
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:07:05 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Paul Kiesel <k7cw at yahoo.com>
> To: "Mike \(KA5CVH\) Urich" <mike at ka5cvh.com>, beamar <beamar at aol.com>
> Cc: vhf contesting <vhfcontesting at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Yagi vs Moxon
> Message-ID:
> <1373990825.17961.YahooMailNeo at web122305.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> One should ask, "It doesn't take a lot of horsepower to work what?" One often hears that all you need is a dipole when the band is open. Those who subscribe to that myth reap the benefits of their belief. A moxon is little better than a dipole.
>
> Now, if your issue is being able to drive with the antenna erected, you have to take the size of the antenna into account. One could argue that it is better to stop to do the operating. Both because when you are driving, you will be paying total attention to the road and also because you would be able to erect a decent antenna for when you operate.
>
> Just my 2-cents after having done it myself for a number of years.
>
> 73, Paul K7CW
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Mike (KA5CVH) Urich <mike at ka5cvh.com>
> To: beamar <beamar at aol.com>
> Cc: vhf contesting <vhfcontesting at contesting.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Yagi vs Moxon
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 9:27 AM, beamar <beamar at aol.com> wrote:
>
> Personally I would not take a 3 element Yagi, roving. But a Moxon, I
> would take.
>
> Mike wrote
>
> I tend to agree that is why I am looking at the Moxon.? I have the old
> CC A50-3S that works but looking to minimize the footprint and
> overhead <no pun> of the bigger antenna some.? I see the trade off as
> a small price to pay as we all know when 6 is open it doesn't take a
> lot of horsepower.
>
> --
> Mike Urich KA5CVH
> http://ka5cvh.com
>
> "My cars all run on recycled dinosaurs"
>
> PIO - D14 S/E - http://harriscountyares.org
> APIC - D1 & D14 - http://www.arrlstx.org
>
> Life is hard, church shouldn't be!
> http://fairmontpark.org
> _______________________________________________
> VHFcontesting mailing list
> VHFcontesting at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/vhfcontesting
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:14:29 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Mark Thompson <wb9qzb_groups at yahoo.com>
> To: "vhfcontesting at contesting.com" <vhfcontesting at contesting.com>
> Cc: "w9xa at yahoo.com" <w9xa at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [VHFcontesting] Fwd: Central States VHF Society Conference,
> Elk Grove Village, IL, 7/26-28
> Message-ID:
> <1373991269.19690.YahooMailNeo at web125205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
>
> From: Kermit Carlson <w9xa at yahoo.com>
> To: Kermit Carlson W9XA <w9xa at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 8:27 PM
> Subject: [frrl] 2013 Central States VHF Society Conference July 26-28
>
>
> Greetings !
>
> ??? ??? The 2013 Central States VHF Society Conference
> committee invites you to a full weekend of VHF/UHF
> activity the weekend of? July 26th-through-July 28th.?
> This 47th? Annual Conference is being held at the
> Elk Grove Village? Holiday Inn at 1000 Busse Rd
> located at the South-West? corner Route 83 and
> Landwehr Road in Elk Grove Village.
> ??? ??? The activities begin Friday morning at 9AM with antenna
> range gain measurements and
> pre-amp noise figure measurement
> contests. Technical Programs are held Friday afternoon
> and all day Saturday. The detailed Agenda and full information
> ?can be found at;
> http://www.csvhfs.org/2013conference/index.html????
> ??? ??? The Society is fortunate to be able to welcome noted
>
> VHF/UHF and 10 Ghz enthusiast Mr Dave Sumner K1ZZ,
> Chief Executive Officer of the ARRL? to this year's
> conference as our Keynote Speaker.? Please plan to attend
>
> Saturday's Banquet when you sign-up for the Conference.?
>
> Registrations for the Banquet will close on Thursday the 18th of July
> so please take time now to? reserve? your dinner selection;
>
> http://www.csvhfs.org/2013conference/2013Registration.html
> ????????
> The Forum Speakers and Topics for the 2013 Central States VHF Society
> Conference - Chicago/Elk Grove Village? will include;?????
>
>
> James Kennedy, K6MIO(/KH6)
> ??? Worldwide Es Propagation on 27-29 June 2012
>
> Kent Britain, WA5VJB
> ??? Unusual Antennas for Unusual Applications
>
>
> James Froemke, K0MHC
> ??? Where have all the ROVERS gone?
> Ed Krome, K9EK
> ?? Building and Testing VHF/UHF Power Amps based on the
> ?
>
> Freescale LD-MOS Modules
>
> ?
> James Kennedy, K6MIO(/KH6)
> ??? Solar Cycle Update
>
>
> Wayne Overbeck, N6NB
> ??Building a Tower Trailer for Roving (and Why!)
> ?
> Jon Platt, W0ZQ
> ??? Gitchi Gami and the 2012 ARRL 10 GHz Contest
>
>
> Terry Price, W8ZN
> ??? 1.5 kW Larcan 222 MHz Amplifier
>
>
> ?Keith Pugh, W5IU
> ??? AMSAT and ARISS Update 2013
>
>
> ?Al Ward, W5LUA
> ??? Working Small Stations on 10 and 24 GHz EME with help of
> ????
>
> WSJT
>
> Gerald Johnson, K0CQ
> ??? Multiple "mini"-topics (Antenna Modeling, Test "Tricks" to
> ????
>
> better your GHz signal, Soldering)
>
> ?Central States VHF? Society Sponsored Activities and Awards -
>
> This will be s moderated session that will recognize the
> ?
>
> 2012-2013 States Above 50 MHz results, Reverse VUCC and the
> ?
>
> 2013 VHF & Up Spring Sprints. This session will extend into a
> ? discussion of the Future of the Spring VHF & Up Sprints.
> ?
> ???????? We look forward to seeing you at the Conference !
>
>
> ?????????????????????????????????? 73, Kermit Carlson W9XA
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:38:15 -0400
> From: Rick R <rick1ds at hotmail.com>
> To: vhf contesting <vhfcontesting at contesting.com>
> Subject: [VHFcontesting] Moxon Yagi loopers roving
> Message-ID: <BAY169-W252DF18C0D431C041A20FFA600 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I have used a variety of all of the above while roving over 20 years.
> I currently use the 6m Moxon for light weight and ease of handling. It's OK, and when 6 is open, it doesn't matter what antenna you have as a rover, as long as it can radiate. I have written about that in the June VHF summaries in QST of folks' experiences with all sorts of "wet noodles" and low power when 6 is open. Anything goes. The most important concern is that the antenna be high enough above the ground (or vehicle roof and other antennas) to allow it to radiate in the designed pattern.
> BUT--I have had some issues with the PAR Moxon. Over the few years I have used it, the lighter weight elements have sagged, the wire element has sagged and caught on things and pulled the tubular elements out of their holes. The insulator of the driven element also broke when the unit fell, but the company replaced that piece for free. All these are easy to repair. Overall I think it's a great rover antenna and I will continue to use it.
> I did use a 3L beam in the past, but I gave it away to a fellow ham who wanted to get on 6m. It was good when I used it, but a little too big for my rover setup. It really didn't make a difference what antenna I used for 6m. I have even used just a dipole. I have a 12 band rover, and the big deal for me is working fixed stations on 2m and then moving them up the bands. We hit 6m last as that is the 1 point band. And when 6 is open, any antenna works and few people stop to run the bands.
> I use 4 loopers for bands 9EFG and the key to keeping them in better shape roving is to mount them with the loops downward. You learn very quickly that low branches and leaves will catch and bend the loops when they are mounted in the up position. They are all mounted on 1 crossbar that is then fastened to the main mast. Polarization is still horizontal. GL. Rick, K1DS
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 16:01:57 -0400
> From: Rick R <rick1ds at hotmail.com>
> To: vhf contesting <vhfcontesting at contesting.com>, VHF REFLECTOR
> <vhf at w6yx.stanford.edu>, "vhfrovers at yahoogroups.com"
> <vhfrovers at yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [VHFcontesting] Mid-Atl States VHF Conference
> Message-ID: <BAY169-W1277B275EF8DFC594339D32FA600 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Sign up now and be an earlybird for the Mid-Atlantic States VHF Conference
> September 27-29 at the InnPlace Hotel in Bensalem PA Next to PARX Casino
> Special rate $79+tax/night mention "VHF Conference" includes continental breakfast
> All info and on-line or mail-in registration and payment at www.packratvhf.com
> Papers still being accepted for proceedings disc -- mail to rick1ds at hotmail.com
> Fri eve--Meet your VHF buddies-Hospitality-tabletop selling
> Saturday--Presentations --see speakers list below
> Saturday evening--Buffet Banquet with door prizes
> Sunday morning mini-hamfest outdoor fleamarket
> $40 Earlybird by Sept 13 includes conference, hospitality, proceedings disc, Sat lunch and snack
> $40 Buffet Banquet. You must be registered and paid for both to be eligible for door prizes
>
> Rick K1DS Love to Rove
> Phil K3TUF Tower Safety
> Roger W3SZ Aircraft Scatter: New Software (ISCAT) and New Horizons
> Steve W1SMS VHF Amplifiers: Tubes or Solid State
> John KB3XG Solid State 2KW Amplifiers for 6m & 2m
> Steve N5AC SDR for VHF, UHF & Microwaves
> Dale AF1T 10GHz and Up contesting
> Paul K4MSG Early Navy EME
> Elliott K3JJZ Multi-op Contest Log Networking
> Ken KA2LIM The K2LIM Contest Station
> Paul WA3GFZ Unique Antenna Mounting Solution
> Ray N3RG Antenna Homebrew Workshop
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 20:06:47 +0000
> From: Bill Olson <callbill at hotmail.com>
> To: VHF Contest Reflector <vhfcontesting at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Moxon Yagi loopers roving
> Message-ID: <BAY165-W35B1EAE66C73218AE614C4C6600 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Rick and all, This is an interesting thread that brings up LOTS of issues besides just comparing a Moxon to a Yagi.. First of all a Moxon is, of course, just a 2 element Yagi with the ends of the elements bent towards each other to reduce the width and, (since the 2 elements are mechanically connected) I suppose add some strength. Even though it "looks" like a loop it is not and has a directional pattern.. Well everyone probably knows that, but as Rick states, what really is important about 6M antennas is the height above ground.. A Moxon, Halo, 2 element Yagi or 7 element Yagi MUST be higher above the ground than one can travel with on a rover. AA9D, multiop contest station from IL, did some test years ago and compared a halo (not sure which one but it doesn't really matter - they all have gain LESS than a dipole) to a 5 element Yagi (correct me someone if I have the # of elements wrong). The Yagi was at "top of car height", say 7-10 feet, and the halo was at 20'. The ha
> lo outperformed the Yagi on all "non-skywave" paths. This is with a difference in published gain of something like 10dB!!! The reason is the pattern gets elevated when the antenna is close to the ground. (The gain is still there, actually, but not on the horizon) That's why the halo (or any antenna actually) close to the ground works so well when the band is open for e-skip. I used to rove with a 4 element beam on the bottom of a stack of 4 yagis. It was probably 7 or 8 ft off the ground. (yeah it hung out over the sides of the vehicle, having a maximum element length of about 10ft but I never hit anything or got a ticket). BUT.. with this setup I hardly ever worked ANYTHING except really close stations except when there was e-skip at which point the elevated pattern actually made it work GREAT and the shorter the skip, the better it worked.. So now, having learned my lesson, I rove with a home made 2 element beam on a 4 ft boom. It's light weight and easy to stow and I use
> it with a 18 ft mast. I actually stow the thing connected to the mast and just pop it up at locations on a mount attached to my receiver hitch, so the beam is actually 20 ft high or so.. This setup has yielded many 200-300 mile dead band "ground wave" contacts and I love it. The pattern is quite broad in the e-plane so you don't have to do a LOT of rotation.. (especially up here where ALL stations are basically southwest) Down side is you can't operate 6m while in motion!
>
> This all leads into my second subject. There are at least 2 ways to skin the rover cat I guess.. Some guys (I am one of them) like to use as big of antennas as they can get (and high power etc) on the vehicle and actually try to work DX from each stop. Others let the vehicle do the work and actually *drive* to the rare grid. I always thought roving with omnidirectional antennas with no gain was pretty ridiculous, but now see that it's not a bad way to go if you like to drive a lot. Hit a WHOLE LOT of grids and keep moving and work everyone you can from each stop and even along the way. The "grid circling" rovers take this scheme to a higher level, but it's the same idea.. Of course driving to lots of grids AND having a station capable of 200,300mile + contacts is even better, but eventually we run out of time or road or whatever..
>
> I still recommend reading the late W3IY - Bill Seabreeze's web page. http://www.w1rt.us/w3iy/ . Bill would hit a TON of grids and even when he was down on the middle Atlantic shore in the FM grids, we'd stand a chance of working him up here in Maine. Read Bill's app note on rover yagi stacking too.. It contradicts a lot of the info out there and I've been working on a presentation to show why - maybe get it to one of the conferences one of these years.. Anyway, Bill turned in really great rover scores.. and he had fun too I can assure you.
>
> Anyway, yada yada..
>
> bill, K1DY in Maine
>
> > From: rick1ds at hotmail.com
> > To: vhfcontesting at contesting.com
> > Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2013 13:38:15 -0400
> > Subject: [VHFcontesting] Moxon Yagi loopers roving
> >
> > I have used a variety of all of the above while roving over 20 years.
> > I currently use the 6m Moxon for light weight and ease of handling. It's OK, and when 6 is open, it doesn't matter what antenna you have as a rover, as long as it can radiate. I have written about that in the June VHF summaries in QST of folks' experiences with all sorts of "wet noodles" and low power when 6 is open. Anything goes. The most important concern is that the antenna be high enough above the ground (or vehicle roof and other antennas) to allow it to radiate in the designed pattern.
> > BUT--I have had some issues with the PAR Moxon. Over the few years I have used it, the lighter weight elements have sagged, the wire element has sagged and caught on things and pulled the tubular elements out of their holes. The insulator of the driven element also broke when the unit fell, but the company replaced that piece for free. All these are easy to repair. Overall I think it's a great rover antenna and I will continue to use it.
> > I did use a 3L beam in the past, but I gave it away to a fellow ham who wanted to get on 6m. It was good when I used it, but a little too big for my rover setup. It really didn't make a difference what antenna I used for 6m. I have even used just a dipole. I have a 12 band rover, and the big deal for me is working fixed stations on 2m and then moving them up the bands. We hit 6m last as that is the 1 point band. And when 6 is open, any antenna works and few people stop to run the bands.
> > I use 4 loopers for bands 9EFG and the key to keeping them in better shape roving is to mount them with the loops downward. You learn very quickly that low branches and leaves will catch and bend the loops when they are mounted in the up position. They are all mounted on 1 crossbar that is then fastened to the main mast. Polarization is still horizontal. GL. Rick, K1DS
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > VHFcontesting mailing list
> > VHFcontesting at contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/vhfcontesting
>
>
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>
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>
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