[VHFcontesting] FM antennas

Thu Nov 30 01:06:28 EST 2017

Hi John,

The FM king replies :) I don't think we'll end up with anything nearly the
size of what you run, your beams are larger than the beams we're running on
sideband. We have ready access to the little 3 element arrow yagis, 7
elements on 70cm, and if we went with a beam that would likely be what we'd
use. It's good to have the direct comparison between your yagis and
verticals, the multiband verticals can get kind of screwy in their pattern.

We're probably always 100-150 miles within a population center in New
England, unless you get WAY out there in upper VT or out in Maine
somewhere. The most remote site we've gone to is Mt Equinox in FN34, VT.
It's only 115 miles from Boston as the RF flies, and under 50 miles to
Albany.

We've no plans to carry FM beams larger than our SSB/CW beams. If we get
bigger beams, we'd just put them on sideband and be louder there. The 6-8'
booms we run are about as big as we'd like to have on there anyway. We
might end up with some power amps, right now we run barefoot (100W on 6 and
2, 6? 7? watts on 1.25 and 25W on 70). I like the idea of multiplexers,
might be something to look into for assorted other tasks.

I'm always a little hesitant to call CQ on the FM calling frequencies, and
don't have much faith in finding people off of the calling frequencies.
We'll usually just toss out a little "hey, anyone out there operating in
the VHF contest this weekend? We'd love to work you if you are" or similar
a few times.

We haven't been chased off by any bears yet, but we did nearly get run off
by the foul stench of a dead one that had been rotting for a while.
Lightning killed our Sunday in Sept 2016, aluminum and storms don't mix
well.

Getting time to chat on the phone is rough, it's usually work -> home for
dinner -> kid's bed time -> oh crap how did it get so late. If you can
reach out 250+ miles it might actually be feasible to work you from South
PA when we're there in January, so perhaps a phone call around then might
be in order to attempt to coordinate. We'll be running loops on sideband
mostly, but if the opportunity presents for some good mults we're willing
to try out crazy.

Thanks and 73,
Sean WA1TE

On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 7:08 PM <nosigma at aol.com> wrote:

> Sean,
>
> This is longer than I wanted so bear with me.  Call me at 703 678 6795
> <(703)%20678-6795> if you want I would enjoy talking to you, much more
> efficient.
>
> I use to run a triband omni along with beams spending about 15 minutes at
> the top of each hour on the omni.  I found that the omni wasnt worth it.
> The "high gain" omni, a cx-333 was used for close in work thinking I was
> missing stations due to my beams narrow azimuth beam width.  The cx-333 had
> a narrow elevation beam width which was the price paid for high gain, worse
> as frequency went up.  I work from elevations around 4500-5000 ft.  The low
> power omni stations I was working that were close in (within 25 miles) were
> actually stronger on the beam side and back lobes than on the omni.  The 2m
> beams sloppy lobe structure has advantages.  Reason being that the omnis on
> both ends were not getting into each others main lobes consistently,
> especially when ridgeline diffraction is involved.  The 30 to 45 degree
> elevation pattern of the beam antenna let me work close in stations below
> me more efffectively and I could still reach out and touch fm stations 200
> to 250 miles out when pointed at them.
>
> I love my tight and precise M2 440 and 220 beams but those are qsy bands
> that I use after peaking on 6m or 2m.  I see the "sloppy" pattern of my
> cushcraft 2m beam as a bit of an advantage. I bet a third of my contacts
> start on the side, and especially the back lobe of the cushcraft.
>
> My beams are all 9 to 12 foot booms and I dont move after setting up
> unless lightening it bears chase me off the mountain.
>
> If you work locations within 100 to 150 miles line of sight from
> population centers a set of 6 foot boom beams which are easy to handle
> might be a better bet for fm.  Spend 10 or 15 minutes calling cq on fm
> pointed at the population centers AFTER you exhaust ssb.  You wont get any
> new multipliers (unless its a really bad day) but you will wake the dead on
> simplex.
>
> Here is a crazy thought (I am going to get flamed for this, its ok, I will
> learn from it)......if your short beams have at least 3db more gain than
> you ssb antennas AND the gain is flat with frequency you can always rack
> then over 45 degrees and try them on both fm and ssb to see how they
> compare.  Good low loss multiplexers are way easier than coax band switches
> and prevent you from blowing up power amps late at night when you get
> punchy.
>
> Your thoughts appreciated
>
> 73
> John
> KM4KMU
>
> Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
> ------------------------------
> On Wednesday, November 29, 2017 Sean Waite <waisean at gmail.com> wrote:
> Since we're always thinking of the next station improvement, I've been
> thinking about the best way to implement FM in the rover.
>
> We've found that it's worth carrying the gear. We don't get many contacts,
> but they are out there and having the ability to make them on demand does
> get us points. Right now, I have a 2/70 vertical that is used for FM, just
> a mobile whip. In January for our run 'n gun I'll probably move to a
> triband whip.
>
> For the stop and shoots, though, we'll be better set up to run beams. We
> have a couple of the small Arrow yagis available that wouldn't be too
> difficult to strap onto a mast and have a v-pol beam available for the FM
> radios. Small LPDAs like the Elk satellite antenna are also another option.
>
> This would give us positive gain on FM...but i'm not sure it's worth it. FM
> contacts are mostly opportunistic, either a periodic call on 146.52 or just
> hearing someone and grabbing the mic real quick. The directivity a yagi
> would give us might blind us to some of the nearby stations calling (though
> the arrows aren't particularly narrow) if they are off the side of the
> beam. The other drawback is that it'll take a little longer to set up if
> we've got another beam or three to attach to the mast and cable up.
>
> What do other people do? Maybe better to have some always-connected, more
> efficient verticals on the roof the car and sacrifice a bit of gain?
>
> Looking forward to your thoughts.
>
> 73,
> Sean WA1TE
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