[VHFcontesting] The digital modes and the Sept contest....

[Mark Spencer]

I wish I had gotten involved with the digital modes on VHF earlier.   I quite enjoyed using FSK441 and JT65B and C on the VHF and lower UHF bands back in 2015 and 2016.  It seemed simpler then, FSK441 for scatter (with very short bursts of signals) JT65 for other uses.   Time sync didn't seem to pose any real issues for portable operations either and the apparently less structured  format of FSK441 also seemed useful to me.

While I am great full for the work of the developers in advancing the state of the art in amateur digital communications at this point I believe I will wait for the dust to settle so to speak and revisit my VHF and up digital mode strategy during the 2018 contest season.   

I'm also considering if I want to acquire a satellite internet system able to support real time access to chat boards, along with a robust time sync solution for my rover vehicle.  I suspect this enabling technology would be helpful going forwards.    Integrating the technology and dealing with the possible EMI / RFI issues might be a nice project for me to deal with over the winter and thru the spring.  All in all a good set of decisions to have to deal with I suppose (:  

73
Mark S
VE7AFZ/R








Mark Spencer

Aligned Solutions Co.
mark at alignedsolutions.com
604 762 4099

> On Sep 12, 2017, at 6:53 AM, Keith Morehouse <w9rm at calmesapartners.com> wrote:
> 
> This is gonna cause flames to erupt, but so be it...not the first time.
> Since this is a VHF CONTESTING mail reflector, I don't think anybody should
> be too offended.  If you are....well....
> 
> Marshall, the whole 'funny little numbers' thing is the result of the now
> complete take-over of the WSJT program by HF-centered operators.  This
> trend has been going on for a number of years and, with the release of -X
> version of the program, the days of WSJT being the work of EME and weak
> signal guys is over.  It's obviously true when you actually have to go into
> SETTINGS to enable those quaint and useless to most "VHF/UHF FEATURES" and
> even more useless "CONTEST MODE".  Read the posts on the WSJT mail
> reflector and note that you're a 'bad guy' if you dare to run high power
> with JT65 or FT8.  I'll bet you VHF ops didn't know that the 'rule' of WSJT
> modes is that they are 'low power' modes !  I'll bet the original JT65 EME
> users didn't realize they were supposed to be QRP.
> 
> This is why you see default settings of JT65 to be nothing like the
> original, EME-centered, versions.  JT65 was hijacked, changed, found to be
> lacking for HF and cast off.  But the 'funny little numbers' remain.
> Everybody is supposed to use QRA64 for EME now - didn't you get the memo ?
> (j/k).
> 
> HF users of WSJT-X outnumber "us" by 10 to 1 (probably more).  Anything
> related (and better for) VHF is but a side note.
> 
> A comment to another post on here - WSJT & Digital operation is NOT a Brave
> New World of contesting.  Many of us have been using digital meteor scatter
> modes (FSK441 and now MSK144) for years and years to improve our scores.
> Also an occasional QSO on JT65 and ISCAT where things are REALLY weak.  The
> whole explosion of WSJT-X by HF centered ops has just thrown it into the
> harsh light of day.  MSK144 for meteors and JT65 for ultra weak and
> constant signals are PROPER uses of the digital modes during a contest.
> FT8, while interesting and useful, is not a 'proper' mode for contesting.
> One can work QSOs much faster on SSB or CW and, from what I can see after
> using FT8 for several months during 6M E season, CW can also be copied by
> ear at lower signal levels then FT8 can reliably and repeatably decode.
> FT8 does nothing 'better'.  The goal of contesting is to create score - a
> higher score can be created using modes other then FT8.  FT8 is an adjunct
> to SSB/CW, not a means to an end.  Remember that the next E opening when
> 50.313 is QRMed to death and 50.080 through 50.200 is a wasteland of noise.
> 
> This is gonna cause flames to erupt, but so be it...not the first time.
> Since this is a VHF CONTESTING mail reflector, I don't think anybody should
> be too offended.  If you are....well....
> 
> Marshall, the whole 'funny little numbers' thing is the result of the now
> complete take-over of the WSJT program by HF-centered operators.  This
> trend has been going on for a number of years and, with the release of -X
> version of the program, the days of WSJT being the work of EME and weak
> signal guys is over.  It's obviously true when you actually have to go into
> SETTINGS to enable those quaint and useless to most "VHF/UHF FEATURES" and
> even more useless "CONTEST MODE".  Read the posts on the WSJT mail
> reflector and note that you're a 'bad guy' if you dare to run high power
> with JT65 or FT8.  I'll bet you VHF ops didn't know that the 'rule' of WSJT
> modes is that they are 'low power' modes !  I'll bet the original JT65 EME
> users didn't realize they were supposed to be QRP.
> 
> This is why you see default settings of JT65 to be nothing like the
> original, EME-centered, versions.  JT65 was hijacked, changed, found to be
> lacking for HF and cast off.  But the 'funny little numbers' remain.
> Everybody is supposed to use QRA64 for EME now - didn't you get the memo ?
> (j/k).
> 
> HF users of WSJT-X outnumber "us" by 10 to 1 (probably more).  Anything
> related (and better for) VHF is but a side note.
> 
> A comment to another post on here - WSJT & Digital operation is NOT a Brave
> New World of contesting.  Many of us have been using digital meteor scatter
> modes (FSK441 and now MSK144) for years and years to improve our scores.
> Also an occasional QSO on JT65 and ISCAT where things are REALLY weak.  The
> whole explosion of WSJT-X by HF centered ops has just thrown it into the
> harsh light of day.  MSK144 for meteors and JT65 for ultra weak and
> constant signals are PROPER uses of the digital modes during a contest.
> FT8, while interesting and useful, is not a 'proper' mode for contesting.
> One can work QSOs much faster on SSB or CW and, from what I can see after
> using FT8 for several months during 6M E season, CW can also be copied by
> ear at lower signal levels then FT8 can reliably and repeatably decode.
> FT8 does nothing 'better'.  The goal of contesting is to create score - a
> higher score can be created using modes other then FT8.  FT8 is an adjunct
> to SSB/CW, not a means to an end.  Remember that the next E opening when
> 50.313 is QRMed to death and 50.080 through 50.200 is a wasteland of noise.
> 
> -W9RM
> 
> Keith J Morehouse
> Managing Partner
> Calmesa Partners G.P.
> Olathe, CO
> 
>> On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 9:48 PM, Marshall-K5QE <k5qe at k5qe.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello all....I have read all the comments about the digital modes and the
>> Sept contest--some of them twice.  Here are my observations.
>> 
>> FT8 was practically useless here.  I worked a few stations, but many, many
>> more on MSK144.  The problems that I saw were almost all related to newbie
>> ops that don't have any idea what the proper protocols are or how to use
>> them.  EVERYONE needs to understand what constitutes a valid VHF contact
>> and be sure that the correct information is sent and received--calls in
>> both directions, grids in both directions, and a Roger in both directions.
>> This definition has served us well for years, and years, and years.
>> Everyone should know it.
>> 
>>   A)The beginners do not understand that a contact is not complete(in a
>> contest at least) unless the grid is exchanged in both directions.  I saw
>> more than one station that sent several messages and the grid was nowhere
>> to be found.  I even saw one or two where the call was not there--they went
>> right away to R-15 or something like that.
>>   B)A big problem for me, is the sending of the "funny little numbers".
>> It is very unfortunate that the program defaults to this kind of messages.
>> If station1 does not have contest mode checked and station2 does, then the
>> messages do not seem to decode properly on one end or the other.  The
>> newbies can't decode the "contest messages"(my guess), so they just keep
>> sending the same message until they get tired and give up.  I have been
>> told the reason for the "funny numbers", but it did not make any sense to
>> me.
>>   C)JT65 is a well defined protocol with very well defined messages.
>> This new version of WSJT-X has upended all that with the sending of the
>> "funny little numbers".  The newbies don't know what the proper messages
>> are, so they don't understand why they don't decode correctly.  When you
>> send {his call} {your call} {your grid} OOO, they don't have a clue.  I
>> know that this can be fixed by checking the "Enable VHF and Microwave
>> features" AND the SH box in WSJT-X, but beginners don't seem to know this.
>> A lot of this could be fixed with some serious education articles before
>> the Jan contest.  The newbies don't seem to know that JT65A is for 6M,
>> while JT65B is for 2M, 222, and 432.  More education, I guess.  We did not
>> use JT65 for any tropo type contacts.  We did use it for our EME contacts
>> on 2M and 432.  We used WSJT v9.3(works good, lasts a long time), which
>> works perfectly, of course.
> _______________________________________________
> VHFcontesting mailing list
> VHFcontesting at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/vhfcontesting
>