[VHFcontesting] VHFcontesting Digest, Vol 177, Issue 28

Fri Sep 15 02:35:42 EDT 2017

Thanks to all who responded. Will try the LPDA with LMR-600 through a Bird switch, which is low loss.  

Bands of op will be 6m, 2m, 222, 432, 1.2 and possibly 900.  This antenna will double as a listening antenna for my AOR 5000 wideband receiver. 

I will device a mechanism to switch to vertical polarization.  

Best 73,
Ed

> On Sep 14, 2017, at 6:01 PM, vhfcontesting-request at contesting.com wrote:
> 
> Send VHFcontesting mailing list submissions to
>    vhfcontesting at contesting.com
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>    http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/vhfcontesting
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>    vhfcontesting-request at contesting.com
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>    vhfcontesting-owner at contesting.com
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of VHFcontesting digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Log Periodic ? (Patrick Thomas)
>   2. Re: BATTERIES (Steve Stahl)
>   3. Re: Log Periodic ? (Zack Widup)
>   4. Batteries (Rick R)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 08:45:43 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Patrick Thomas <p-thomas at mindspring.com>
> To: VHF Contesting <vhfcontesting at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Log Periodic ?
> Message-ID:
>    <11834128.2005.1505393143713 at elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> Like all things in contesting, I think it depends on one's goals and circumstances.  Sure, an LPDA will not perform as well as long (maybe even mid-length) yagis.  But... it also will cost less, take up less space in the vehicle, take up less space/weight on the mast, take less time to set up (assuming you start from scratch), and will only require one run of heavy coax.  Plus obviously AN antenna will outperform NO antenna!  And as others have mentioned, you can use it for a backup "any band that failed" antenna in the future, if you later graduate to a higher-performing setup.
> 
> Cheap surplus coax switches of good quality show up fairly often on ebay that can handle frequencies up to 1-2 GHz at a couple hundred watts, switching between 6-10 connectors, and these are easily controlled by anything from an automated arduino to a pushbutton control panel, so I would not be turned off by the need for a switch.
> 
> Just my thoughts on the matter.  I considered building my own LPDA as there are many good calculators out there, but ended up with a large van for a rove vehicle, which will happily swallow many large antennas.  Now if it would just run reliably....
> 
> Patrick
> KB8DGC
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 06:39:14 -0700
> From: Steve Stahl <ke7ihg at gmail.com>
> To: "Steve (K1IIG)" <stephen.tripp at snet.net>
> Cc: vhfcontesting at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] BATTERIES
> Message-ID:
>    <CAGyh3WPQdb5pfvOTmSpBiYR0G2XenGttf-7AzMWQYG_v3CUW9A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> In my current rover setup I'm using 2 group 24 deep cycles that I tie into
> my truck with a rv charging relay.
> Then I use a battery booster (N8XJK )to draw from the deep cycle batteries..
> My main rover radio is a Yaesu 847 which is very voltage sensitive.
> This works great, I never have a issue as far as power goes during a
> contest.
> MURPHY on the other hand. ....
> 
> On Sep 14, 2017 6:01 AM, "Steve (K1IIG)" <stephen.tripp at snet.net> wrote:
> 
> Barry,
> FYI, Car batteries are not the best choice for Roving but will work. Car
> batteries are designed to be charged and discharge just like in the car.
> They also do not like to be float (trickle) charged. To get around this
> people use a smart charger that removes the charge when it reaches full
> charge and then kicks in when it drops below a certain level. Car batteries
> are designed for CCA cold cranking and not designed for reserve usage.
> Marine batteries are designed for that type of service and can be float
> charged with no ill affects hence are a better choice for Roving. Running 2
> car batteries in parallel might not be the best choice either. When not
> being charged, they will drain against each other if not disconnected. They
> do make a dual deep cycle marine battery that can perform as a car battery
> and reserve battery. I probably did not explain this clear enough so check
> out this site for a better description. https://marinebatteryguy.com/
> 
> Years ago I was told there are only 6 manufacturers of wet (flooded) cell
> batteries, Gould, Exide and a few others. Here is an interesting cut and
> paste I found.
> How many car battery manufacturers are there in the world?
> As of May 1, 2013, there are three major automotive starting flooded
> battery manufacturers in the United States. There are four absorbed
> glass-mat (AGM) starting battery manufacturers and there are four flooded
> deep cycle battery/major deep cycle battery manufacturers in the United
> States.
> 
> There are dozens of brands of batteries made to different specs. Interstate
> seems to be one of the most popular car battery.
> 
> 73's
> Steve
> K1IIG
> 
> 
> Interesting battery discussion. Also interesting that the IC-910 seems to
> take significant d.c. power.
> I've recently acquired an Icom IC-9100 and I'm trying to choose the 13.8v
> portable power source. Last weekend in the Sept VHF contest the rig was
> set up for the first time with my SUV, and I discovered that my usual
> single automotive (Sears Diehard) sealed lead-acid battery is
> insufficient. This battery has worked well with an FT-897 and an IC-7100,
> but the larger power drain of the IC-9100 causes the rig to reset itself
> on xmit.
> Is there a way to calculate how long two car batteries in parallel would
> last?
> I already have a small Honda generator although I don't usually bring it
> along unless I'm using an amp.
> Thanks in advance,
> Barry K7BWH
> Seattle CN87us
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: VHFcontesting [mailto:vhfcontesting-bounces at contesting.com] On
> Behalf Of Alan Larson
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2017 3:42 PM
> To: vhfcontesting at contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] The digital modes and the Sept contest
> 
>> Hi Alan.  That is useful info re the ic910.  I'm just curious what
>> type of batteries are you using.
>> 
>> I've had considerable success running my ic7300, FT736, multiple
>> Icom706MkiiG's, an icom 735 IF radio, 300 watt amps on 50 and 144 MHz,
>> transverter, etc..  from two 12 V 100 AH Agm style batteries.
> 
>  Over the years it has varied, but typically I would have 25 - 30 amp
> hours of sealed lead-acid batteries in parallel with the starting battery
> of the diesel VW.  Solar would be attempting to hold that up.
> 
>> I took another 100 AH battery with a solar panel with me during the
>> June contest and used it to run an inverter that in turn powered the
>> battery chargers for the computers and also powered another charger to
>> top off the two radio batteries.  I had ample power for approx 6 to 8
>> hours of operation including some MSK144 at close to full power on 50
> MHz.
> 
>  When operating from a small motor home, I have used 200 AH of battery
> feeding an inverter feeding a switching power supply to run the rig.  In
> the more space limited Volkswagen, a small Honda generator has proven to
> be the most convenient option.  (This includes consideration of the
> difficulty of getting all the items inside the Jetta.)
> 
>  For low power operation, I would still choose solar if available, but I
> wanted full power from the rigs.
> 
>        Alan
> _______________________________________________
> VHFcontesting mailing list
> VHFcontesting at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/vhfcontesting
> 
> _______________________________________________
> VHFcontesting mailing list
> VHFcontesting at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/vhfcontesting
> _______________________________________________
> VHFcontesting mailing list
> VHFcontesting at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/vhfcontesting
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 09:23:42 -0500
> From: Zack Widup <w9sz.zack at gmail.com>
> To: VHF Contesting Reflector <vhfcontesting at contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Log Periodic ?
> Message-ID:
>    <CANJxhWg1PRQmEQa_yxG7_-Tdh+cnqNsE0TrTK8u78mHfUNSqcw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> I think if you're close to a metropolitan area with a lot of people to
> work who are close by, the log periodic is the way to go. Some of the
> Rovers in the Chicago area I know use LPDA's. My favorite portable
> location is about 100 miles from the closest stations I work. I have
> found it's advantageous to use a separate, larger beam with more gain
> for each band.
> 
> 73, Zack W9SZ
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 7:45 AM, Patrick Thomas <p-thomas at mindspring.com> wrote:
>> Like all things in contesting, I think it depends on one's goals and circumstances.  Sure, an LPDA will not perform as well as long (maybe even mid-length) yagis.  But... it also will cost less, take up less space in the vehicle, take up less space/weight on the mast, take less time to set up (assuming you start from scratch), and will only require one run of heavy coax.  Plus obviously AN antenna will outperform NO antenna!  And as others have mentioned, you can use it for a backup "any band that failed" antenna in the future, if you later graduate to a higher-performing setup.
>> 
>> Cheap surplus coax switches of good quality show up fairly often on ebay that can handle frequencies up to 1-2 GHz at a couple hundred watts, switching between 6-10 connectors, and these are easily controlled by anything from an automated arduino to a pushbutton control panel, so I would not be turned off by the need for a switch.
>> 
>> Just my thoughts on the matter.  I considered building my own LPDA as there are many good calculators out there, but ended up with a large van for a rove vehicle, which will happily swallow many large antennas.  Now if it would just run reliably....
>> 
>> Patrick
>> KB8DGC
>> _______________________________________________
>> VHFcontesting mailing list
>> VHFcontesting at contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/vhfcontesting
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:01:03 +0000
> From: Rick R <rick1ds at hotmail.com>
> To: "vhfcontesting at contesting.com" <vhfcontesting at contesting.com>
> Subject: [VHFcontesting] Batteries
> Message-ID:
>    <BLUPR19MB0113CDA53E6C8591E2FCAF52FA6F0 at BLUPR19MB0113.namprd19.prod.outlook.com>
>    
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> As a rover for 25 years, I have had much experience with batteries and rigs. Here are some experiences and thoughts:
> 
> Many rovers running multiple big batteries (generally deep cycle marine type) also use the TGE voltage boosters (see Tim's QST ad) or the Jacobs Accuvolt. That way, you can set the voltage (say ~13.5V) to be delivered to the rigs, even if the battery runs down to 10-11 volts. Yes, the batteries then need a recharge and the vehicle's alternator needs to be capable of recharging the batteries between rover location stops. A fully charged marine battery that has a 100Ahr rating can usually run a 100W output rig for about 3 hrs, depending on how much of the time you are transmitting, based on my experience. Remember that that 100w output requires about 25 amps of power, 20 for the amp, and likely 5A for associated electronics like the computer, lights, rotor, possible inverter, etc. My 375W TE 2m amp draws 53A on xmt.
> 
> Some rigs will not operate well once the voltage starts dropping to 12V or below. Most were designed to operate at 13.8V optimally. I have had that problem with my trusty old FT736R. I get bad audio reports when the voltage sags. Sometimes the digital freq display goes down, and that's the signal that the voltage is too low. I see others have had that experience, and the rig internal computer wants to reset itself.
> 
> How have I managed over the years? I run the engine almost continuously when I rove, using the alternator to boost and recharge the batteries continuously. I use 6 marine batteries, all rated at 100Ah. Two sets are in parallel and 1 set in series for two of my uW amps that run off 24VDC. I have a 100A solenoid to switch the automobile power to the batteries and I have a 50A fuse in the line, and I monitor the charging with a 50A ammeter and a 0-20V voltmeter. I only charge the 12V parallel banks, not the 24V series set as those batteries generally last an entire weekend, as the amps they run are for 903 and 2304, and although the amps on those bands are about 100W each, they are used for far less transmitting on the weekend than does my 375W TE 2m amp. I have an E-150 1994 Ford van for roving and there is very little electrical hash when it is running. I also have a Honda 2KW generator, but never used it on the road as I had the above the scheme. My rover ran 160w on 6, 300+w
>  on 2, 120w on 222, 100w on 432, 100w on 903, 120w on 1296, 80w on 2.3, 40w on 3.4 and a few watts each on 5, 10 and 24G.  Rick, K1DS
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> VHFcontesting mailing list
> VHFcontesting at contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/vhfcontesting
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of VHFcontesting Digest, Vol 177, Issue 28
> **********************************************

.