[VHFcontesting] Beware the FT8 Flaw

[Ron Klimas WZ1V]

No I only received WZ1V EA8ABC -10 nothing more, 
despite sending back EA8ABC WZ1V R-18 many times, 
he never acknowledges yet just goes on calling CQ. 
The same EA8 did the same thing to others on frequency. 
He just seemingly refused to send RR73. He may have 
sent it just once but I never received it. The problem is HE 
thought he had a good contact. The really curious thing is 
he did the same thing to others on frequency, none of whom 
received a RR73 or RRR. Then when I confront him he sends 
"Already Wkd" - well maybe in his dreams !  
If he were a good operator, he would have dropped out of 
Auto Mode to send another RRR or RR73. 
My point is this is not a good contact, despite his thinking it was. 

----- Original Message -----
From: Jay RM <w9rm at calmesapartners.com>
To: "vhfcontesting at contesting.com" <VHFcontesting at contesting.com>
Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 08:01:17 -0600
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Beware the FT8 Flaw

> Yes, a operator flaw, for sure.
> 
> Fades happen and even though your QSO partner may be reporting you at +10
> or +15, he might miss a sequence.  Once again, situational awareness kicks
> in.  If you are running guys, like REALLY running guys and using a one shot
> RR73 before CQing or answering someone else, YOU need to pay attention just
> a teeny tiny bit more to the last QSO.  Did the guy send 73 or just stop
> transmitting ?  You probably have a successful QSO.  Did the guy send his
> RR <report> sequence again ?  If so, your QSO is not yet done - he missed a
> sequence and you better give him a shot of 73 once (or more - only you know
> what's on YOUR screen).  If you don't pay attention, you're risking busted
> Q's in the log.
> 
> Now, if you are on the receiving end of the 'not paying attention' problem,
> YOU missed that sequence and the guy you're working goes merrily on, you
> can take some risk and assume he got your report and logged you because he
> didn't repeat any sequences.  If HE missed your RR <report> sequence, he
> would have sent his original report over again....probably.  If you get
> nothing for a sequence and then he's calling CQ or someone else, it's
> relatively safe to assume you just missed the RR73.  MOST guys won't blow
> you off just for missing one sequence....
> 
> Like I said, there is some risk doing that.  You'll have to decide whether
> to log it or not.
> 
> Actually, even though WSJT modes are designed to be almost automatic, I
> find it stressful running "rate" (sarcasm) on FT8 because you REALLY need
> to pay attention, things happen fast, you're stuck using a point and click
> interface and you probably have half-a-dozen guys blowing up your screen
> with red lines.  Wait until FT4 halves the amount of time you have to make
> a decision.  That's when it might be a good idea to QSY to SSB for RATE.
> 
> -W9RM
> 
> Keith J Morehouse
> Managing Partner
> Calmesa Partners G.P.
> Olathe, CO
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 5:05 AM Ron Klimas WZ1V <wz1v at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> > Beware the FT8 fatal flaw.
> > To be fair, it's really an FT8 operator flaw.
> > I'm sure I'm not the only one who's annoyed by this.
> > It reared it's ugly head again yesterday.
> > EA8ABC (not real call) is calling CQ on 6M in Auto mode.
> > CQ DX EA8ABC IL28.
> > I manually enter his call to answer:
> > EA8ABC WZ1V FN31.
> > His computer replies WZ1V EA8ABC -10.
> > My computer replies EA8ABC WZ1V R-18.
> > Nothing back.
> > My computer replies EA8ABC WZ1V R-18
> > several more times with nothing back while
> > meanwhile EA8ABC computer keeps calling CQ.
> > I try to call him again from scratch.
> > He answers with a signal report but aborts the contact.
> > I send NO RR?
> > EA8ABC sends ALREADY WKD.
> > EA8ABC is so confident his JT software worked me
> > he's in denial that his one time RR73 was never decoded.
> > Beware herein lies the flaw:
> > If this were the ARRL June VHF QSO Party,
> > and we both submtted logs, EA8ABC would be penalized
> > for claiming a QSO with me since he's not in my log.
> > Neither could he get a confirmation via LOTW.
> > If you use FT8 it can happen to you either way.
> > You could be the one who gets penalized for trusting
> > the software is always correct without human intervention.
> > -73 Ron WZ1V
> >
> >
> > ---
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