[VHFcontesting] The impact of the digital modes on the January VHF Contest and some suggestions on dealing with those impacts

Sun Feb 7 12:44:18 EST 2021

First of all, I think George, K5TR, is on-point with trying a contest
without FT8 (I would propose ARRL June VHF; because, I suspect there
is more to gain on 6m by forcing everyone onto phone/CW than any other
contest).  By the way, my discussion with German operators also
confirms what George learned from his European friends:  serious
contests are still conducted on analog modes.

Second, the discussion of the casual operators *is* key...my late
friend and elmer Bill, AD8P, said of FT8 (at HF) that it "allowed
unskilled operators with poor stations to work DX."  It's a harsh
characterization, but there's also a lot of truth to it:  I suspect
there are a lot of people who are "testing the waters" on VHF, but
have no idea what it takes to put out a decent signal.  (If you read
the Internet help forums and see the questions people ask about HF
antennas, you'll understand why they haven't bothered with VHF!)  FT8
also reduces the dimensionality of the search space problem for VHF in
that you always know how to find stations to work; so, it's a bit
easier for a new operator to "hang out at a watering hole."  If you do
work some new locals (or someone in a nearby 'rare' grid) on FT8,
reach out to find out what they're running and what their interests
are!

73,

--Ethan, K8GU.

On Sun, Feb 7, 2021 at 10:42 AM Doug Bates <kv4zy.1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What is missing from this discussion IMHO, is that casual operators just
> want to have fun playing with their SSB capable VHF rigs. At the start of a
> contest there are a few SSB contacts to be made, then after working every
> station they can hear dialing the VFO finds no "big gun contest" stations
> still calling CQ. On the other hand dialing to the FT8 frequency signals
> are heard.
> If the "serious contesters" think endlessly calling CQ on dead frequencies
> is not fun, think about how much less fun it is for a casual operator who
> does not have the deep pockets for multiple towers holding stacked arrays
> and legal limit amps.
> Serious contesters need to be out there to be heard by the casual operator
> who only has a chimney mounted mast with single short boom yagi per band.
> Take some responsibility serious contesters, if you want to have more
> contacts on SSB, be on to attract the casual operator.
> 73 and good luck in the next contest.
>
> Doug Bates KV4ZY
> Sent from my Verizon mobile phone.
>
> On Sun, Feb 7, 2021, 10:08 AM Jeff Townsend <wb8lyj at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I think everyone is missing something here.
> >
> > There are all sorts of proposals on changing the rules.
> >
> > You are all looking at this from the contesters point of view.
> >
> > A majority of the stations on are not in the contest though.
> > No fiddling with the rules is going to change the how most of those
> > stations operate.
> >
> > They are there to have FUN and could care less about points.
> > Maybe fun for them is FT8, maybe its SSB, maybe CW.
> > When it is no longer fun for them they are gone.
> >
> > I don’t know if this was mentioned here but I know I have heard it in
> > other discussions.
> > The best way to get more stations to work on your preferred mode is to
> > encourage normal daily activity.
> >
> > Create activity nights for your preferred mode, get local stations active.
> > That will translate to more contacts at contest time.
> >
> > Jeff Townsend
> > WB8LYJ/R
> >
> > > On Feb 7, 2021, at 9:48 AM, N2WM Walt <n2wm at centurylink.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > This is 100% on the mark.
> > >
> > > I find FT-8 boring and I am an observer not an operator. Yes the Mode
> > works for very weak signals but when stations are s-9 why use FT-8. Last
> > contest to work my own Grid Square had to work a station 12 miles away on
> > FT-8.
> > >
> > > I have been in VHF Contests since 1970 and I read that LOG submissions
> > are up but our Limited Multi Op hilltop station our QSO totals are down.
> > >
> > > I do contest for the fun and challenge of working stations and trying to
> > get one more Grid. With FT-8 no joy, no feeling of accomplishment, Just
> > boring time spent watching a computer screen and knowing no operator skill
> > involved.
> > >
> > > From FN21OC
> > >
> > > 73 Walt N2WM
> > >
> > > Trustee of W2LV  VHF Group.
> > >
> > > On 06-Feb-21 22:43, Jay RM wrote:
> > >> .. George, you've pretty much read my mind and put my exact thoughts
> > into
> > >> words.
> > >>
> > >> -W9RM
> > >>
> > >> Keith Morehouse
> > >> via MotoG
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Feb 6, 2021, 7:55 PM George Fremin <geoiii at kkn.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hello fellow VHF contesters.
> > >>>
> > >>> I have only been loosely following this thread recently.   I have not
> > been
> > >>> reading many of the messages to this list for a few years now so I may
> > not
> > >>> be fully up on what all the thoughts have been.  I think I have some
> > idea
> > >>> of a few folks feelings on this list and I have been having similar
> > >>> conversations with a few other VHF and HF ops I know.
> > >>>
> > >>> The last year or two of VHF contests that I have operated have me
> > >>> questioning if I want to continue to put time and effort into doing
> > >>> contests on or for that matter even spending much time on these bands
> > in
> > >>> general.  In addition to the VHF contesting I do, I do a lot of HF
> > >>> contests.  I choose not to do any digital contests.  I have never found
> > >>> them to be very interesting to me.  I enjoy the challenge of using my
> > ears
> > >>> and brain to copy CW and voice signals.  I have spent a large portion
> > of my
> > >>> life now learning how to do this pretty well.  Letting some machine do
> > that
> > >>> for me takes removes the skill that I have worked so hard acquire.  As
> > a
> > >>> result I do not find the digital modes to be that much fun.
> > >>>
> > >>> I am not sure what the answer is here - I think trying to do mixed
> > modes
> > >>> will be a mess - although it would help my QSO totals.
> > >>>
> > >>> Back 10 years or more ago I posted a message to this list where I
> > stated
> > >>> that I was not going to operate using digital modes - of course this
> > was
> > >>> when it was just MSK or maybe some EME - and I held to that - and since
> > >>> very few of the folks and none of the casual folks were doing those
> > modes
> > >>> it did not affect my scores too much.  We have seen the rise in EME
> > but the
> > >>> MSK totals seem about the same but the big change has been FT8 - and
> > that
> > >>> has become the mode that everyone seem to have living on these days.
> > And
> > >>> as others have noted that has really hurt contact rates and made it
> > hard to
> > >>> move folks between bands.  So in the last few contests I have done
> > more and
> > >>> more digital when I am at home.  I have been doing the Sep and Jan
> > contests
> > >>> as a rover with my girlfriend using her call - and we have not do any
> > >>> digital from the car but we can tell that is hiring our score as more
> > and
> > >>> more folks seem to be stuck on FT8.
> > >>>
> > >>> As I stated above this all has me wondering why I am on these bands -
> > >>> since most of the activity is on a mode I do not enjoy.
> > >>> One of my thoughts has been that I will go back to the way I used to
> > do it
> > >>> before and only do SSB and CW going forward and let whatever I miss on
> > the
> > >>> digital modes go by the wayside.  I have no interest in putting up a
> > large
> > >>> EME array on any bands - since that would just mean more digital
> > contacts -
> > >>> and for me that is no fun.  So I might do the contests in this way
> > going
> > >>> forward - SSB/CW only and temper my expectiaons on my scores and likely
> > >>> never ‘winning’ these contests ever again.  One of my long term goals
> > was
> > >>> to make over 2000 contacts on 6m in the June contest.  But it has
> > become
> > >>> clear to me that this is likely not possible any longer due to the fact
> > >>> that so many casual folks stick to FT8 even when the band is wide open
> > and
> > >>> the rate I just not there.  So be it.  I have to do what is fun for
> > me.  Or
> > >>> maybe I just get rid of all the VHF stuff while the getting is good and
> > >>> move on.   I am still unsure.
> > >>>
> > >>> One thing I was wondering about for the the past few weeks was how is
> > the
> > >>> playing out in Europe.  So today I wrote to a German ham that I know
> > has
> > >>> done VHF contests and he replied.  I what he said interesting:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> The major VHF+ contests over here (1st weekend of March [2m+], June
> > >>> [23cm+], July [2m+], September [2m only], October [70cm+] and November
> > >>> [2m CW only]) are still unchanged, only allowing SSB and CW contacts,
> > >>> and I don't see that changing anytime soon. On 2m, the top stations
> > >>> will routinely work more than 1000 QSOs. I don't think the big guns are
> > >>> interested in using FT8, and they're the ones sitting in the contest
> > >>> committees of the various clubs, where rules could be changed.
> > >>>
> > >>> That said, activity on VHF *outside* contests is predominantly FT8 (or
> > >>> the various meteorscatter digital modes) nowadays, but in general I
> > >>> guess that FT8 has overall increased non-contest activity, so maybe
> > >>> that's not such a bad thing.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Maybe trip to Europe for some VHF contests would be fun for me.
> > >>>
> > >>> I still do not know what do so here in the North America - maybe we
> > could
> > >>> make one of the VHF contests SSB/CW only and see how that goes?
> > >>> That seems like it would be fun.  And it would be something different -
> > >>> and that is a good thing in my book - why do they all have to be the
> > same?
> > >>> I am sure there are others that will disagree.
> > >>>
> > >>> 73,
> > >>>
> > >>> George Fremin III
> > >>> K5TR
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
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> >
> > Jeff Townsend
> > WB8LYJ/R
> >
> >
> >
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