[VHFcontesting] Is FT8 Really the Problem with VHF Contests?

[Terry Price]

Well I think FT8 is a problem when it comes to passing and the "fix" that was installed earlier this year is not a good answer. FT8 does make working weaker stations easier especially if the other op doesn't use cw. On 432 we worked stations running less than 100w between 450 and 530 miles on FT8 and a couple on cw. We are running 4x FO25's, a remote preamp and this time only 500w.

Getting on the VHF bands to see if you like them doesn't have to cost that much. Watch ebay, lots of Kenwood TV2's come up and Yaesu FTV901, FTV107 transverters. The little Ukrainian transverters are less than $100 and I see they have a dual bander. Elecraft made the XV144, 222 and 432 and of course the best of the crop were the DEMI (now Q5).

As far as building and testing goes, if you know which end of a soldering iron to grab you can build something. Start with a sequencer from DEMI, very useful and you never can have too many !! I'm about 1/2 way done with my new shop/operating building near Winchester VA. Over the years I've accumulated a lot of nice test gear and I'm more than willing to help any newbies that need assistance. Just let me know what you want to do and we can arrange a time. We are also set up to help rovers get started, the shop has a 14' high door, 24' ceiling and has a pretty full machine shop including welding.

There isn't much we can do for folks that their spouses don't like antennas or chose to live in an HOA, those are personal choices. I consider myself one of the lucky ones, my wife doesn't mind and is about as supportive as one could ever hope for. But it's a two-way street, I'm not a winery hopper and I don't enjoy the HGTV channel but I suffer through with her with a smile!!

HFer's would have more fun and more folks to work if they put just a little effort in. That doesn't mean using their HF/6m rig with a tuner into their tribander, that's why they have to use FT8. It wasn't that many years ago that K8GP operating from Spruce Knob (which is 100 miles from the DC area, worked 1000 Q's on 2m and 6m. Now I know there has been a lot of folks that have become SK's but I hear a lot of "more senior" hams that are turned off by the digital modes. Most of us want to hear a voice or a nice cw tone through the headset.

Terry - W8ZN

-----Original Message-----
From: VHFcontesting [mailto:vhfcontesting-bounces+terry=directivesystems.com at contesting.com] On Behalf Of David Olean
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2022 3:52 PM
To: Zack Widup <w9sz.zack at gmail.com>; Josef 'Jeff' Sipek <jeffpc at josefsipek.net>
Cc: VHF Contesting <vhfcontesting at contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] Is FT8 Really the Problem with VHF Contests?

Hello Zack,

It was heartening to read your response to the activity conundrum. You were the only one who mentioned building anything!! I got started in ham radio as a school kid with no money. In fact, the HS physics teacher gave me my ham test! I did not have many Elmers to show me the way. It was just my brother and me, K1RCK, and a subscription to QST. At the time, Sam Harris, W1FZJ was the "World Above" editor.  He did not suffer fools lightly.  He was constantly pushing VHF hams to not just take up space, but to push the boundaries as best as you could. Every column contained a detailed discussion of some facet of the current technology as it applied to VHF.  He was rather brutal in describing how to build a decent VHF station. Why else would a high school kid spend his hard earned money on a 65 ft long chunk of RG-17/U coax? Sam Harris told me that if my feedline on any band was over 1 dB, to "fix it!"  That implied that something was broken if the loss was over a single decibel.

I became a homebrew fanatic in short order. I could build any VHF rig up and end up with a much better performing system than if I had plopped down hard cash for the latest shiny new amateur radio rig offering!  I had no choice. I was a poor HS kid but I listened to everything that Sam Harris said in his VHF columns.  One of my axioms developed over the years, was to devote 90% of available funds to the antenna system and the last 10% on the radio. I think that is still a good split even today.

The first radio that I ever bought brand new in a real store was in about 1990. I got a Yaesu FT-290 25 watt radio. It was OK, but nowhere near as good as my homebrew  or second hand junker radio that I fixed up!!  The FT-290 was convenient to use.

Times are different today, but just about every ham alive  will be better off if he or she builds up something...anything, as a homebrew project. I just bought my first commercial amplifier two years ago. At last count, I have built or converted 35 different amplifiers. They all worked after a fashion and I learned from each one. This past July, I was at the Central States VHF Conference and my door prize number was picked rather far down the list. It was almost down  to the "Nuts and Volts" subscriptions, MFJ Coffee mugs,  and Trim cap "tweakers" 
territory.  When I got to the prize table, I saw an RCA 7213 ceramic tetrode  sitting there all lonesome and dejected looking.   My eyes lit up! This thing will put out 1500 watts on 432 and not bat an eyelash!! I brought it home. This winter, I will build up a 432 amplifier just to see how it works. So far I have ZERO dollars into the project. Yes tubes are old school, but you make do with what you have!

I think N1DPM was on to something. Newer hams need a good mentor to show what is possible. I read Sam Harris' VHF columns and he had a way of getting you to see the light. There was heavy lifting involved, so a mentor is needed to keep the new guy going in a straight line. I try to preach what is possible on VHF with simple gear. There is so much more to VHF than a Baofeng and a rubber quacker antenna.

Dave K1WHS


On 9/13/2022 2:25 PM, Zack Widup wrote:
> When you REALLY get hooked on it, you want more and more bands. I 
> started out by building a 2m transverter in 1990. Then added 50 MHz. 
> Then added 432. Then added 222. All homebrew transverters and 
> antennas. I eventually ended up with ALL bands from 50 MHz through 76 
> GHz, all built by myself, and the VK's 122 GHz module.
>
> A couple years ago I got an FT-857D and FT-897D. Since I primarily 
> operate QRP Portable in contests, these rigs were fine for me. I still 
> use my same
> 222 transverter with one of the above rigs as the IF rig. I use an 
> FT-817ND as the IF for all the bands 902 and above. Up until the 
> IC-705 came out, the FT817 was the IF rig of choice for many microwave ops.
>
> I have found that building transverters isn't all that expensive. It 
> is, however, time-consuming and requires a certain minimum of test 
> equipment, like an accurate frequency counter and power meter. I got 
> an HP435B power meter and an EIP545 frequency counter (0-18 GHz) for 
> not much money at hamfests. And when you get to 47 GHz and above, a 
> machine shop is nice to have access to.
>
> I currently don't have a way to operate FT8 when I'm portable. I'm 
> glad they created the "Analog Only" category for ARRL contests.
>
> 73, Zack W9SZ
>
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 10:59 AM Josef 'Jeff' Sipek 
> <jeffpc at josefsipek.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 03:33:24 -0400, Doug Bates wrote:
>> ...
>>> Yes phone VHF contesting may have been more fun before FT8 came 
>>> along
>> I think another way to put it, is that correlation does not imply 
>> causation.
>>
>>
>> Anyway, I thought I'd chime in with a new ham perspective.  I got my 
>> license two years ago which means that I got to build a "shack" from 
>> scratch relatively recently.  When I started surveying the market to 
>> figure out what transceivers existed that'd get me on air, it became 
>> painfully clear that there is essentially no "cheap" way to get SSB 
>> 2m and up with double-digit watts.
>>
>> I definitely wanted 100W HF, and while I liked the idea of VHF/UHF 
>> SSB, I wasn't sure if I'd use it enough.  Aside from some diehard 
>> VHF/UHF hams, nobody seemed to care about VHF/UHF other than for FM.
>>
>> At the time, the two obvious transceiver options were the FT-991A and 
>> the IC-7300.  Translating that into practical terms:
>>
>>   1. IC-7300: HF+6 only, very popular choice, transverters get expensive
>>      quickly, IC-9700 is even more expensive
>>   2. FT-991A: $100 more than IC-7300 for 2m and 70cm all-mode capability of
>>      "ok" quality (the 2m/70cm frontend is somewhat "bolted on")
>>
>> So, I had to decide between a very popular radio that seemed to get 
>> just about everything right but had no VHF/UHF and a radio that few 
>> talked about but had a reasonable VHF/UHF capability for $100 more - 
>> without having no idea what I was going to like.  (After agonizing 
>> over the decision for a while, I ended up going with the Yaesu and it 
>> has served me well during both HF and VHF contests - both at home and 
>> as /R - as well as POTA/SOTA/WWFF.)
>>
>> I'd argue that the vast majority of new hams will either (1) stick to 
>> FM repeaters and never venture beyond, or (2) not consider *any of 
>> this* and get the very popular IC-7300 unknowingly cutting themselves 
>> off from other modes on VHF/UHF (without additional investment).
>>
>> So, I think I primarily blame the lack of readily available hardware 
>> for the underutilization of VHF/UHF.  I don't know what things were 
>> like before, but I get the impression that there were more choices 
>> when it came to VHF/UHF SSB.
>>
>> Just my 2 cents,
>>
>> Jeff (AC1JR)
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