[VHFcontesting] [NEWSVHF] Logging between various software programs
David Olean
k1whs at metrocast.net
Tue Aug 8 09:14:26 EDT 2023
Hi Leandra
Those are good comments. I guess it all boils down to the fact that
computer logging is quite critical and require some serious effort when
submitting due to the fact that computers are "dumb" and do not possess
reasoning abilities. Then you have to factor in security with the large
platforms such as LOTW and Clublog etc. Someone who is a computer geek
should dig into this and inform the masses on how to negotiate effective
computer logging at VHF. At CSVHF, there was a very informative
presentation about VHF rover logging. All I can say is I am glad I am
not a rover!
It is hard enough to get all the equipment operating correctly, then
figuring out routes and deploying multiple antennas at sketchy
locations, only to have all of your efforts negated by incorrect logging
methods.
What surprises me is that N1MM does not do a good job with the digi
modes for VHF. There is a lot of room for improvement. I will try to
customize my TQSL program as a work around. I believe that it is very
effective to have the specific digital modes listed so that you can
evaluate the performance of each. Maybe I need a big yellow pad! my
problem is that my writing with pen & pencil is now impossible due to
aging. I can't read my own writing!
The good news is that I have identifiied my problem and can work on
resolving it! Thanks!
Dave K1WHS
On 8/8/2023 12:31 AM, Leandra MacLennan wrote:
> The Amateur Data Interchange Format (ADIF) is a standard which gets updated periodically. The last update was Version 3.1.4 on Dec 6, 2022
> https://www.adif.org/
>
> Version 3.1.4 is here
> https://www.adif.org/314/ADIF_314.htm
>
> All of the logging programs should follow the ADIF and handle all of the fields and all of the selections for each field defined in the spec.
>
> Note that some of the newer modes need to be mapped as Mode and Submode to be recognized by LoTW. For example, VARA HF needs to be mapped as Mode = Dynamic and Submode = VARA HF
>
> And of course, the ham at the other end of the QSO needs to log it the same way you do to be recognized in LoTW.
>
> Dave, I give you a lot of credit for getting your VHF contest QSOs into LoTW. I have seen very few LoTW matches on the QSOs I've submitted to LoTW after roving for the VHF contests. Part of the problem is what you have identified - the contest logging programs don't have the ability to capture the detail needed for submitting to LoTW after the contest. I use FM and SSB during the contests, but my contest logging program only has "PHONE" as a selection for mode because that's all the contest Cabrillo file requires. I need to make separate notes during the contest to remember which mode I used, to build a correct LoTW submission. And the ham on the other end needs to do the same!
>
> -Leandra AF1R
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: VHFcontesting <vhfcontesting-bounces+leandra=leandramac.com at contesting.com> On Behalf Of David Olean
> Sent: Monday, August 7, 2023 9:40 PM
> To: Scott Armstrong <aa5am.scott at gmail.com>
> Cc: Bob Bownes <bownes at gmail.com>; vhfcontesting at contesting.com; NEWSVHF at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [VHFcontesting] [NEWSVHF] Logging between various software programs
>
> Hello Scott,
>
> I had no idea that you could do that stuff with TQSL. Remapping the modes looks like a great way to get things to run seamlessly. I have not tried it yet, but I plan to do that. It looks like the adif spec covers about everything. The problem is having the logging software use the same names. It should not be that hard! SO thanks to all with some suggestions and such. I learned a lot!!
>
> 73
>
> Dave K1WHS
>
> On 8/7/2023 6:53 PM, Scott Armstrong wrote:
>> Dave,
>>
>> One of the confirmation matching criteria for LOTW is that the modes
>> must be an exact match or match a mode group ( ex. DATA = FT4, FT8,
>> Q65, etc) https://lotw.arrl.org/lotw-help/key-concepts#confirmation
>>
>> Within TQSL, you can remap ADIF modes to something TQSL recognizes.
>> You can also remap Cabrillo modes to something that is recognized.
>> File Menu --> Display or Modify Preferences Then select ADIF Modes or
>> Cabrillo Specs Tabs.
>>
>> I don't know where a printed document lives that specifies what mode
>> and propagation types TQSL/LOTW recognizes . However you can go into
>> TQSL
>> File Menu --> Create a new ADIF file and look in the dropdown boxes
>> for mode and propagation mode to see what is available and accepted
>>
>>
>> Scott AA5AM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 3:19 PM David Olean <k1whs at metrocast.net> wrote:
>>
>> So I sent in my 222 & Up log to LOTW. It was exported from N1MM as an
>> adif file. I checked and got an immediate match with VA3IKE for
>> his 49th
>> grid on 432. Ike was very keen to get that contact logged in LOTW. It
>> was a new state on 432 as well as grid #49. The MODE I saw on
>> LOTW was
>> SSB. We actually used Q65B-30 but I changed it to SSB. I am not sure
>> what mode VA3IKE used. I also got a note from K1TEO, who claims
>> to have
>> also sent his log in. He had a match for only one contact with me on
>> SSB. He had an FT8 contact with me on 432 and I called it SSB.
>> Jeff had
>> RY and there was no match. Strangely, I checked for K1TEO just now
>> and
>> came up with NO MATCH!! What a mess. Jeff gets a match for our 222
>> contact but I do not.
>>
>> I wish I had paid attention to this stuff before. I just assumed that
>> everything was fine with the world.
>>
>> I will pursue this further.
>>
>> Dave K1WHS
>>
>> On 8/7/2023 3:24 PM, Bob Bownes wrote:
>> > Would it make sense to ask the ARRL to establish a 'standard'
>> for this
>> > sort of thing as we do for internet standards (IETF) or telecom
>> (ITU),
>> > even if it is a 'compliance is not mandatory' kind of thing?
>> > Easy to see an extension to digital modes, codecs, etc.
>> >
>> > Bob, who has participated/written too many standards in his day
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 2:29 PM David Olean <k1whs at metrocast.net>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I have had all sorts of problems with logging software and
>> contest
>> > entry
>> > software that processes logs. Maybe I missed it, but It is hard
>> > to find
>> > documentation that gets down and dirty to tell us what
>> responses are
>> > allowed in each block where data is entered. In this past
>> contest I
>> > used N1MM to log for the 222 and Up contest, and it allows
>> certain
>> > entries for MODE. My regular logging program is VQ-Log and
>> it has
>> > various modes allowed. When you make an ADIF file to submit to
>> > the ARRL
>> > LOTW, those choices may be incompatibile. The ADIF format
>> allows only
>> >
>> > SSB
>> > CW
>> > RTTY
>> > TOR=AMTOR
>> > PKT
>> > AM
>> > FM
>> > SSTV
>> > ATV
>> > PAC=PACTOR
>> > CLO=CLOVER
>> >
>> > N1MM recognizes CW, USB, LSB, SSB, AM, FM,SSTV, RTTY, PSK31,
>> PSK63,
>> > PSK125, PSK250, DIGITAL, FT8 and FT4.
>> >
>> > Note that many of the modes allowed by N1MM are not listed
>> in the
>> > ADIF
>> > specification. This means that any program with the wrong mode
>> > might be
>> > bounced out of the LOTW log and you are out of luck. The
>> contact is
>> > discarded.
>> >
>> > If you supply a Cabrillo file to the ARRL for your contest
>> > submission,
>> > the modes that are allowed are only
>> >
>> > CW
>> > PH
>> > FM
>> > RY
>> > DG
>> >
>> > It gets better. My daily logging software VQ-Log and is
>> primarily
>> > aimed
>> > at VHF ops. There is a field for propagation type. If you
>> read enough
>> > you might find a comment telling you that the propagation
>> mode is not
>> > required in ADIF, but I found out the hard way that only
>> certain
>> > prop
>> > modes are accepted by the ARRL adif files. TR means tropo
>> but TRS in
>> > VQ-LOg indicates tropo scatter which is a primary means that we
>> > VHFers
>> > communicate with. I hand copied almost all of my old paper
>> logs and
>> > entered the prop mode as TRS and only later found out that
>> all of
>> > those
>> > submitted files went into the bit bucket in Newington. So I
>> have
>> > to go
>> > back and modify all my entries from TRS to TR to make things
>> work.
>> > Really, my life is too short to have to deal with these glaring
>> > software
>> > compatability issues.
>> >
>> > Somewhere, I have an email that delineates all of the prop modes
>> > recognized by ARRL LOTW and the adif input file. I wish it
>> had been
>> > published somewhere.
>> >
>> > So I submitted my 222 & Up file to LOTW. Please let me know
>> if you do
>> > not get a match. I ended up calling everything either CW or
>> SSB.
>> > There
>> > was no real good choice for FT8 or MSK144, or Q65. You would
>> think
>> > that
>> > maybe DIGI might be a good name for all of these VHF modes,
>> but you
>> > would be mistaken. Your choices are SSB or maybe RTTY.
>> There must be
>> > some patches between software to fix some of this, but it
>> sure has
>> > gotten me in trouble very often.
>> >
>> > grumble grumble!
>> >
>> > Dave K1WHS
>> >
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