[VHFcontesting] Contest suggestion / Multiple contacts per band

Bob, W3IDT w3idt at comcast.net
Wed Sep 18 11:37:29 EDT 2024 

Having been one of the proponents of three contacts per band (and 
forcing CW contacts to be in the CW exclusive portions on 6m and 2m),
I find Ed's (K3DNE) comments...

> I am opposed to proposals (that I have read about on the reflectors)
that advocate three contacts – phone, CW and digital. I feel this would
disenfranchise the no-code operators from effectively participating in
the mixed mode category.

... to be the most persuasive argument against my own proposal that I 
recall seeing.

Bob, w3idt

.......
. Robert F. Teitel, W3IDT
.
. w3idt at comcast.net
. w3idt at arrl.net
........

On 9/17/2024 12:39 PM, Ed Kucharski via VHFcontesting wrote:
> I think Paul is right on:
> "The solution I always thought would work is allowing stations to make
> contacts on an analog mode AND a digital mode on each band. Hopefully this
> will encourage stations to leave FT8 when conditions are good, and pick up
> a mic or a key."
>   
> I've been thinking and saying similar for years now.  I've said much of this before on the reflector(s) and sent a similar proposal to ARRL but will try to be more concise here.
>   
> Addition of 2 new sub-categories. The ARRL 10 Meter Contest is an example of a successful split mode contest (SSB Only, CW Only and Mixed-Mode categories). A similar model can be applied to ARRL VHF contests.
> 1. "Digital” (one QSO with the same station on the same band using any recognized Digital mode ONLY).
> 2. "Mixed-Mode” (one QSO with the same station on the same band using either Phone/CW and Digital).  ie. Mixed-Mode entrants may contact stations for contest credit once on Phone/CW and once on Digital.
> (The "Analog” sub-category remains the same - one QSO on the same band with the same station on Phone or CW ONLY).
>   
> Present VHF contest rules and the present scoring metrics will remain the same with some minor adjustments about multi-mode QSO's on the same frequency not being allowed between analog and digital modes.
>   
> Categories:
>   
> Single Operator (High and Low Power); Single Operator Portable; Single Operator, 3-Bands, and Single Operator Classic, Limited, and Unlimited Rover entrants may enter in either Analog Only, Digital Only or Mixed Mode subcategories.
>   
> FM-Only.
>   
> Limited and Unlimited Multioperator; may only enter in the Mixed Mode subcategory.
>   
>   
> Scoring
>   
>   No scoring changes other than the opportunity to work two QSO’s on the same band with the same station in the Mixed-Mode category (one on Phone/CW and one on Digital).  I know, this is a big paradigm shift - scores will look much different.
>   
> The spirit and intent of this proposal is to:
> 1. Rejuvenate interest in phone and CW that has either migrated to digital, scaled back operations or abandoned vhf contesting due to the lack of interest or desire to operate digital modes.
> 2. Increase activity on UHF and SHF by making it easier to QSY to other bands (especially UHF and SHF bands) via Phone/CW.
>   
> This proposal retains an Analog Only (Legacy) category just for the phone/CW ops that may have little or no interest in digital operations and a Digital only category for digital enthusiasts. For those who want both they may participate in the Mixed-Mode category which hopefully increases analog activity - how could it not?  Personally, I am opposed to proposals (that I have read about on the reflectors) that advocate three contacts – phone, CW and digital. I feel this would disenfranchise the no-code operators from effectively participating in the mixed mode category.
>   
> I too remain concerned about the future of VHF+ contesting - is it changing to the point where VHF+ contesting will become solely a digital contest? I have read many post contest reports, spoken with, emailed, or traded messages on the VHF reflectors about this phenomenon – many feel similarly. Some have already either downsized their stations or have stopped operating in VHF+ contests due to the surge in digital operations and the decrease in legacy modes and UHF/SHF activity. We can impact this trend by applying rule changes which encourages the legacy modes and simultaneously provides for the digital enthusiasts. IMHO, the Analog Only sub-category didn't go far enough.  I feel this proposal accomplishes both and has a successful historic model with the ARRL 10m Contest.
>   
> 73,
> Ed K3DNE
>   
> 
>> On 09/17/2024 11:45 AM EDT Paul Bourque <pbourque at gmail.com mailto:pbourque at gmail.com> wrote:
>>   
>>   
>> Hi Rick,
>>   
>> The 2 caveats that I see in having separate CW/SSB and Digital "weekends"
>> of the contests are that:
>>   
>> 1. The big multi-op stations who mount a large-scale mountaintop effort
>> (think W2SZ) will not be able to (or willing) to assemble their stations
>> for 2 weekends let alone one weekend. This will dilute the number of
>> available stations to work on each of the weekends.
>>   
>> 2. When will we be able to schedule these weekends? June has a rather full
>> contest calendar (plus graduations, and other family stuff), and an
>> additional weekend in September might be tough with the kids back to
>> school, and family stuff- and let's not forget football season.
>>   
>> The solution I always thought would work is allowing stations to make
>> contacts on an analog mode AND a digital mode on each band. Hopefully this
>> will encourage stations to leave FT8 when conditions are good, and pick up
>> a mic or a key.
>>   
>> And you're right- the cheese has definitely been moved! It's a new game out
>> there folks. I remember when I was first licensed I could effectively
>> contest using a 5W FM handheld and a 5/8 wave 2m whip on the car. When the
>> FM tri-band Kenwood mobiles were popular you could easily move stations
>> from 144 to 220 and 432 and it was lots of fun using FM only (think late
>> 90's early 2000's.) I stepped away from contesting and most ham stuff in
>> the early 00's because life got in the way, and boy was I surprised to find
>> very little FM activity when I returned to VHF contesting in the 2019 June
>> contest.
>>   
>> We do have to realize that it's not going to go back to how it was then,
>> and I'm all for embracing new technology and newer operators, but at heart
>> I'm a phone contester, and that's where I find the fun factor is, but we do
>> need to adapt.
>>   
>> 73,
>> -Paul N1SFE
>>   
>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2024 at 11:26 AM Rick R <rick1ds at hotmail.com mailto:rick1ds at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>   
>>
>>> Here's a thought—Even hours analog, Odd hours digital
>>> Or perhaps having an analog-only contest and a digital-only contest as has
>>> been suggested many times. Rick K1DS
>>>   
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* newsvhf-bounces at mailman.qth.net mailto:newsvhf-bounces at mailman.qth.net <newsvhf-bounces at mailman.qth.net mailto:newsvhf-bounces at mailman.qth.net>
>>> on behalf of Paul Bourque <pbourque at gmail.com mailto:pbourque at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 17, 2024 11:18 AM
>>> *To:* k1ep at arrl.net mailto:k1ep at arrl.net <k1ep at arrl.net mailto:k1ep at arrl.net>
>>> *Cc:* Terry Price <terry at directivesystems.com mailto:terry at directivesystems.com>; News group mailing list <
>>> newsvhf at mailman.qth.net mailto:newsvhf at mailman.qth.net>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [NEWSVHF] Dave and Fred and all
>>>   
>>> A couple of years ago, I posted in Contest Update and recommended that
>>> stations call CQ and look for CW/SSB QSOs at the top and bottom of each
>>> hour. Of course, what really helps here is that some of the bigger gun
>>> stations get on and call CQ. Maybe we should make this a thing- similar to
>>> how K1WHS is helping bring back life to 222. But we need to get more
>>> stations on board for this to work. I'm not anti digital modes, but I
>>> really find it more enjoyable to work stations on phone (working on my CW
>>> skills, but not anywhere near ready for prime time with that.)
>>>   
>>> This past contest, I was focussed on 6 meters because I'm so close to
>>> getting my VUCC on 6 and that was my goal for this contest. I only heard
>>> one station calling CQ on SSB (W2EA), which I had already worked. The CQs
>>> from my little gun station went unanswered. But I tried- I didn't make a
>>> single contact on SSB as my time was being wasted sitting there calling CQ
>>> to an empty band. BTW- my goal for getting closer to VUCC was successful-
>>> I'm sitting at 99 confirmed grids right now- and hoping that a couple of
>>> stations that I worked confirm for my 100th grid.
>>>   
>>> In June, I roved to 3 sites in FN31, FN32 and FN42- (SSB/FM only). When I
>>> was in FN32- basically in W2SZs backyard, I was expecting to hear them on
>>> all three bands I had (6, 2, 432)- but they were suspiciously absent from
>>> SSB and FM. I did catch them calling CQ on 446.0 when I was driving down
>>> the hill from my FN42 location. I thought for sure I'd hear them on phone
>>> being so close to them. In years past, W2SZ was my "beacon" during
>>> contests- it was a sure bet that I'd get them in the log every contest.
>>>   
>>> I'm really looking forward to any suggestions on how we can breathe some
>>> life back into CW and voice (SSB, FM, AM..) during the VHF contests.
>>>   
>>> 73,
>>> -Paul N1SFE
>>>   
>>>   
>>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2024 at 10:23 AM Ed Parish <k1ep.list at gmail.com mailto:k1ep.list at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>   
>>>
>>>> If all of us abandon CW and SSB, then everyone will be on FT8. We still
>>>> need to call CQ on CW and SSB and make some activity there. It was
>>>> disheartening at tines to tune from 50.125 to 50.200 and not hear a
>>>>
>>> single
>>>
>>>> SSB signal during the contest.
>>>>   
>>>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2024, 09:44 Terry Price <terry at directivesystems.com mailto:terry at directivesystems.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>> I don't "care" for digital modes either but I have worked folks on FT8
>>>>>
>>>> that
>>>>
>>>>> I could not work on cw so it does have it's place. As a contester, you
>>>>>
>>>> have
>>>>
>>>>> to go where the activity is, do I wish there was more cw/SSB, heck yes
>>>>>
>>>> but
>>>>
>>>>> it is what it is.
>>>>>   
>>>>> ANY VHF & up activity is welcome, hell I'll work you on FM or AM if
>>>>> necessary !!!
>>>>>   
>>>>> Terry Price - W8ZN
>>>>> Directive Systems and Engineering
>>>>> 703-754-3876
>>>>>   
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>   
>>>   
>>>   
>>>
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