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Re: [Amps] Transfer capacitance, was GI-46B Question

To: jeff millar <wa1hco@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: [Amps] Transfer capacitance, was GI-46B Question
From: R.Measures <r@somis.org>
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 04:44:51 -0700
List-post: <mailto:amps@contesting.com>
Jeff -- I have seen Eimac data sheets where the (g-g config) feedback-C and the output C were inadvertently swapped.

On Oct 15, 2004, at 8:53 PM, jeff millar wrote:

Art...

Let's put this back on the reflector...it's getting interesting.

All the data sheet from the gda.pl site list values like
input C 10 pF
output C .05 pF
Transfer C 5 pF

But the data sheets at nd2x.net generally look like
input C 10 pF
output C 5 pF
Transfer C .05 pF

Note the swapping of values between ouput C and Transfer C values

Going to the Eimac web site and looking at the 8877 data sheet clears this up. The values swap around between grounded grid and grounded cathode. Feedthrough and Transfer C measure the same thing.

Capacitance Grounded Cathode

     Input
     Output
     Feedthrough

        38.5 pf
0.1 pf
10. pf
Capacitance     Grounded Grid

     Input
     Output
     Feedthrough

        38.5 pf
10.2 pf
0.1 pf


So... make a table of all the Grounded Grid transfer C we can find for these tubes


GI-6B 0.2 - 0.3 pF
GI-7B 0.055 to 0.095 pF
GS-9 0.04 pF
GI-46B
GS-31 0.12 pF
GS-35 0.12 pF
8877 0.1 pF

It doesn't appear that any of the various web sites have data on the capacitance for the tube...which is a bit strange. But since someone built a 432 Amp with the GI-46b, it probably doesn't have the special feedback wires like the GI-6B.

A very interesting little bit of investigation.

jeff, wa1hco


Arthur Moe wrote:


Jeff,

You might want to look here:

http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/018/g/GI7B.pdf

http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/018/g/GI46B.pdf

Note that Transfer "C" is 4.0-5.2 for the GI7B and 5.1-6.4 for the GI46B, the 46 only 1.1 to 1.2 more


Art KB7WW



jeff millar wrote:

Interesting...do you think there's a typo on the data sheet?

jeff

Arthur Moe wrote:


All,

If you look around these sites you will find VHF amplifiers using these tubes. One
is a commercial builder in europe. See mid power list.




http://www.pollak.sulinet.hu/elektro/pa_rev/pa_rev.htm#mid_vhf

http://www.westparknet.com/business/ham%20shop/GI46Bamp.htm

http://www.qsl.net/ok2zi/pa432.html


Art KN7WW








Bob the advertisement says the GI-46b is a variant on the GI-7b. But
its interesting to read the description of the GI-6B, particularly the
transfer capacitance (http://nd2x.net/gi6b.html). Lets compare transfer
capacitance


GI-6B 0.25 pf wires from cathode to anode to make it oscillate
GI-7b 0.075 pf good to microwave frequencies
GI-46B 5.1 pf wow
(http://www.tubes.ru/techinfo/TransmittingPulseTubes/gi-46b.html)


So it look to me like they used the tube as a power oscillator in
UHF/microwave application and include extra transfer capacitance to
simplify the external cavity design.

I belive the statement that the tube is the last generation of small
triode and it's the most advanced design. But its not suitable for UHF
and probably not for VHF. But in an HF amplifier in Grounded Grid, it
works fine.


jeff, wa1hco

Bob Bruno - K2KI wrote:




Are there any examples of an amp that has been built using the GI-46B tube. I see a guy on eBay selling them rather cheap I think.
Anything that I should know about this tube that might steer me away from getting one?



73, CUL


Bob Bruno - K2KI
k2ki@starc,org
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Richard L. Measures, AG6K, 805.386.3734. www.somis.org


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