Bill, I think you missed part of the discussion:we were not talking about
tuned circuits.
We were talking about an amplifier with no tank circuit being coupled
directly (no transmission line) to an antenna. Normally when we think about
amplifier tank circuit Q, we do not include any part of the antenna R +j;
considering it to be 50 +j0.
In the case under discussion someone mentioned a Q of 1 and my reply was to
counter that statement.
This is all hypothetical of coarse as there is always some C across the
tube plate to cathode plus any stray C lurking around. But, in the
hypothetical case of no tank circuit, there is infinite reactance, other than
what
might be present due to the plate rf choke, which we will ignore.
The discussion went on to state that the antenna would be resonated at the
operating frequency. Antenna resonance is accepted to R +j0 customarily.
In the hypothetical case, the parallel circuit is infinite reactance
shunted by the antenna resistance. Q = R/infinity is a Q of zero. If we
substituted a dummy load of R=antenna there would still be infinite tank
reactance
and a Q of zero.
In this hypothetical case, I stand by my suggestion that Q = zero.
73,
Gerald K5GW
\
In a message dated 4/11/2010 2:04:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
wlfuqu00@uky.edu writes:
Sorry, I clicked on the wrong email.
I was responding to Gerald's (K5GW) email where he was in error about
resonance and Q. Also, most of us are familiar with R,X and Q and also
Bandwidth, Center Freq. and Q. But there is another relationship which has to
do
with the energy stored in a resonant system relative to the energy flowing
through it during each cycle.
Q is proportional to the stored energy in the tuned circuit divided by the
energy going into it on each cycle. That is why high Q circuits get hot or
have large wire sizes etc. Also, that is why the in the old days a tuned
circuit was often called a "tank" circuit. It actually stored oscillating
energy like a tank. I think some of the SKs from many years back understood
resonance better that today's engineers.
73
Bill wa4lav
________________________________________
From: Roger [sub1@rogerhalstead.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 3:57 AM
To: Fuqua, Bill L
Cc: TexasRF@aol.com; dezrat1242@yahoo.com; amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] CB amp directly coupled via cap to antenna
Bill Fuqua wrote:
> If what you say is true then no resonant circuit has Q.
>
Not quite. It's true the formula is either X/R or R/X and at resonance
Xc and Xl are equal. But the formula says to use EITHER Xc or Xl, not
both which would be zero at resonance.
73
Roger (K8RI)
> In series resonance Q= Xc/R or you can use inductive reactance. they
> are equal at resonance.
> In parallel Q=R/Xc
> 73
> Bill wa4lav
>
>
> At 09:58 PM 4/8/2010 -0400, TexasRF@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Q=X/R in a series circuit or R/X in a parallel circuit. Since at
resonance
>> there is 0 ohms X in the series circuit or infinite X in the parallel
>> circuit, The Q would be 0 as in zero.
>>
>> No flywheel action here.
>>
>> In a real world case, say 15,000 vdc and 5A plate current, the plate
load
>> impedance would be about 1700 ohms. There would probably be 100 pf from
>> plate to cathode which is about -58 ohms at 27 MHz. So, looking into
the
>> tube,
>> there is a parallel circuit of 1700 ohms resistive and about 58 ohms
>> capacitive. The Q is 1700/58 = 29.
>>
>> The series equal is 2 -j58. The antenna would need to look like 2 +j58
for
>> a match. That is not a very friendly number so more help is needed.
>>
>> I will leave the rest of the design work to others.
>>
>> 73,
>> Gerald K5GW
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 4/8/2010 5:50:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>> dezrat1242@yahoo.com writes:
>>
>> ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
>>
>> On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 17:09:08 -0400, Ron Youvan
>> <ka4inm@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> By adjusting the antenna length to be resonate at the exciter's
>>>
>> frequency the antenna
>>
>>> is that "tank circuit," it's just lossy by the radiation resistance.
A
>>>
>> variable coupling
>>
>>> capacitor is not necessary.
>>>
>> REPLY:
>>
>> Upon further consideration, if the antenna impedance matched the
>> tube's plate load impedance, wouldn't the Q be just one? I think you
>> still need the simple LC tank circuit for the flywheel effect.
>>
>> 73, Bill W6WRT
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>
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