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[Amps] HV lytic max V ratings..some notes

To: <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: [Amps] HV lytic max V ratings..some notes
From: "Jim Thomson" <Jim.thom@telus.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 00:37:18 -0700
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 10:25:58 -0400
From: "Carl" <km1h@jeremy.mv.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] HV lytic max V ratings..some notes


The L4PS.. and L7PS  used  100 k , 2 watt carbons... and even they look
> new after  30+ yrs.

** Dentron did the same. Alpha used a pair of 220K in parallel.

## Drake was using 100k 2 watt in the original L4PS.. back in 1963.

##  alpha used 1N4007's in their 374-A no tune.. pure junk. [diodes]



>
> I still say that going extreme in filter C is a waste of time in most off
> the shelf amps. Ive yet to hear any audible ripple complaints about 
> 80-150uF  caps used in strings in the old days. Going from 200 to 330uf as I 
> do with
> SB-220 repairs makes only a very slight PEP improvement; the transformer
> isn't capable of more and its the same with many price conscious amps.

###    I can hear the diff with ESSB.   I can also hear the diff on AM.  I'm not
talking abt 120 hz ripple either.  The ESSB  audio sounds cleaner.. as does
AM audio.   I haven't tried FM..yet. 






>
> ##  The SB-220 xfmr is only a 500 VA unit... which is fubar.  Big diff 
> between  a  500 va xfmr and a 3.5 kva xfmr.


** Im talking about commercial ham amps. Anyone can go oversize on HB with a 
credit card.


### say what?    The alpha's all have a 3.5 kva CCS xfmr... and so does the
AL-182/1200/1500.    So does the ten tec centurion.







>
> ## putting 600uf caps in a AL-1500  does make an improvement.  You
> can get em in 500 vdc too.  Pep out is up.   I'm convinced imd is 
> improved.


** As well it should go up. Its no different than the vintage requirement 
for a stiff L-C-L-C filter in a modulator PS plus with a stiff bleeder. You 
barely see the HV meter move.

##  so what's wrong with big C filters then?  You can buy surplus  big 2300uf + 
caps for the same price as new   330uf  to 560 uf vcaps.   An extra  free
100-200 w pep out and better imd, is nothing to sneeze at. 






>
>
>
> Now if you want to run strings of 2400-4700uF caps with your 253# Dahl 
> iron  on a 3x10 or whatever that is your business.
>
> ## I used  8 x 2500 uf caps on the L4PS.. and B+  doesn't budge on ssb.


** Serious overkill unless you can measure an improvement that is actually 
audible. Otherwise it is just bragging material.

##  the 2500 uf caps were dirt cheap, surplus.  I can A-B  between
a stock 25 uf  L4B.. and a  2nd L4B.. with 312 uf filter in it.... big 
difference.   I run the 2x L4B's  nose to tail, tuned up on same freq.
A rotary switch ensures  only one amp's key line is active at any one time.
Dunno what it is, but it cleans up the audio. 

##  P-P voltage drops  from 210 V.... down to just 16.8 V  P-P 

##  watching that array solutions wattmeter, last few led segments,
dithering away, drove me nuts... same deal on the RF scope.  That
was with a CXR.. and anything from 700-1300 w out.  [stock - 25 uf] 




>
> ## The single  GS35B  6m  amp,..used the 46 lb  mag cap xfmr... and B+ 
> dropped  800 vdc.  There was also a 6 vac drop in the 12 ga wire.   The 2 x 
> GS35B 
> 6m amp  uses 2 ga wire and a bigger xfmr... and a string of 3900 uf caps.   V 
> drop 
> is only 150 vdc  power output is quadruple.

** There is something seriously wrong with that 800V drop.

##  agreed.  An alpha also uses the same 12 ga wire...and minimal
problems.  The 46 lb mag cap will  have to be tested  with the 2 ga wire,
and only then, will we know if the mag cap is the problem.   




 Im convinced that real filter rated oil caps give better regulation.

##  I have 4 x  47.6 uf  @  4500 vdc  Oil caps.. [ came from henry radio yrs 
ago]
made by CDE.  These are real deal TX caps.. not energy discharge junk.  I can 
put
them all in parallel 1-2-3-4 at a time.. or  series /parallel em for 23.8 uf  @ 
9 kv
and also 47.6 uf  @ 9 kv.    12" tall x 8"  wide  x 4"  deep..30 lbs, welded 
steel cases.
They don't hold a candle to the big electrolytics.  I can run the oil caps by 
themselves,
or parallel em with  high C lytics... or run just the high C lytics.   The 
weight diff
alone is massive.   120 lbs for 4 x oil caps [47.6uf @ 9 kv]   vs  17.5 lbs  
for  125 uf
@ 9 kv   for  20 x  2500uf  @ 450 vdc lytics. 

##  trying to compare 200 uf caps  with their 1 ohm ESR  VS  .017ohm ESR modern 
caps
is like apples and oranges.   They  were cheap , surplus, so I took advantage 
of that,
to run the various experiments. 

Jim   VE7RF   




Carl
KM1H



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