Nothing new to your original email, you continue to say RBN is prohibited
for SO and I continue to say it is only prohibited for QSO alerting
assistance inside of VIII.
The fact that the rule says nothing about other types of use is misleading,
because when it talks about it, it does so only regarding QSO alerting
assistance.
SOs also use SDR with panadapters, to monitor band openings do you consider
that QSO alerting assistance? In this case you don't need to tune the VFO
to discover whether a band is being used or not. That's a big difference to
traditioanl SO2R when you do have to tune the VFO to discover that yourself
for example.
In other words the fact the RBN is placed inside of VIII, places it in a
very specific context, but RBN Data pulled from whatever interface to see
where your own signal is being copied has nothing to do with that scenario
of VIII.
Martin, LU5DX
On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Bob Naumann <W5OV@w5ov.com> wrote:
> The rules do not say “Monitoring one's own signal has nothing to do with *QSO
> alerting assistance”.*****
>
> ** **
>
> The rules are very clear about **defining the types of systems** that are
> prohibited. The rule is **not describing a narrow definition of how these
> systems can be used** at all. ****
>
> ** **
>
> The rule and definition strictly define those systems that **are
> prohibited**.****
>
> ** **
>
> It specifically precludes “the use of” these systems. It does not say that
> you can use them only for certain purposes. There is no exception for
> different uses listed – there is certainly no mention of an exclusion for
> “monitoring one’s own signal”.****
>
> ** **
>
> While “Monitoring one’s own signal” might be another facet of the RBN, the
> rules make very clear that the USE of the RBN is prohibited.****
>
> ** **
>
> Let’s break it down:****
>
> The **DEFINITION** says: “The use of any technology or other source that
> provides call sign or multiplier identification along with frequency
> information to the operator”. ****
>
> Clearly, this is what the RBN does - and what Skimmer, yes even what
> “Blind” Skimmer does also. RBN AND Skimmer are therefore prohibited in
> their entirety. No exception listed here.****
>
> Then it says: “It includes, but is not limited to, use of DX cluster,
> packet, local or remote call sign and frequency decoding technology (e.g.,
> CW Skimmer or Reverse Beacon Network), or operating arrangements involving
> other individuals”.****
>
> By name, the **Reverse Beacon Network** AND **Skimmer** are specifically
> listed as prohibited for single operators. How can one deny that they are
> prohibited?****
>
> Where the exception to the total prohibition of these technologies in the
> rules? ****
>
> ** **
>
> Where does it say, “in an exception to the assistance rule, you can use
> these systems to monitor your own signal”. It does not say that.****
>
> ** **
>
> There is nothing in the rules to back up your claim of **any** allowance
> for the use of RBN by Single Operators.****
>
> ** **
>
> This points out that perhaps Martin is correct about one thing and that is
> that the rule needs to be even more strongly worded to preclude any
> baseless interpretations like this.****
>
> ** **
>
> W5OV****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* monsalvo@gmail.com [mailto:monsalvo@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Martin
> , LU5DX
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 25, 2013 7:31 AM
> *To:* Bob Naumann
> *Cc:* iain macdonnell - N6ML; CQ-Contest
> *Subject:* Re: [CQ-Contest] : Reverse beacon of my own call?****
>
> ** **
>
> Precisely. The rule is really clear about the use those tools are not
> meant to be used for. The use of the RBN in this case is specifically
> included under VIII.****
>
> Monitoring one's own signal has nothing to do with *QSO alerting
> assistance.*****
>
> No need to add an exception to the rule, since the rule is talking about a
> totally different case of use.****
>
> Now, if using the RBN for monitoring one's own signal also needs to
> be forbidden by the rules, the rules will have to clearly state so.****
>
> ** **
>
> LU5DX****
>
> ** **
>
> On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Bob Naumann <W5OV@w5ov.com> wrote:****
>
> I apologize for possible redundancy, but this seems to be difficult to
> understand:****
>
> ****
>
> The rules specifically say:****
>
> ****
>
> 1) QSO alerting assistance of any kind is prohibited (see VIII.2).***
> *
>
> 2) *(VIII.2) QSO alerting assistance:* The use of any technology or
> other source that provides call sign or multiplier identification along
> with frequency information to the operator. It includes, but is not limited
> to, use of DX cluster, packet, local or remote call sign and frequency
> decoding technology (e.g., CW Skimmer or Reverse Beacon Network), or
> operating arrangements involving other individuals.****
>
> ****
>
> It is named specifically in the list of example technologies that are
> prohibited. There is no exception in the rules for using it only as a
> “propagation monitoring tool”.****
>
> ****
>
> W5OV****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> *From:* monsalvo@gmail.com [mailto:monsalvo@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Martin
> , LU5DX
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 25, 2013 6:47 AM
> *To:* Bob Naumann
> *Cc:* iain macdonnell - N6ML; CQ-Contest
> *Subject:* Re: [CQ-Contest] : Reverse beacon of my own call?****
>
> ****
>
> Not to the extent the rules prohibit its use.****
>
> You are not using it for QSO alerting purposes.****
>
> In this case you are using it as a real time HF propagation monitoring
> tool.****
>
> If that type of use is not accepted either, the rules should clearly state
> it.****
>
> ****
>
> Vy 73.****
>
> ****
>
> Martin, LU5DX****
>
> ****
>
> On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:39 PM, <w5ov@w5ov.com> wrote:****
>
> It says "the use of".
>
> I think using RBN to check who might be hearing you is definitely "using"
> the RBN.
>
> > The way I read the CQWW rule, RBN is an *example* of a "technology or
> > other source that *COULD PROVIDE* call sign or multiplier
> > identification along with frequency information to the operator". If
> > it is not used to provide the operator with frequency information
> > about other call signs / multipliers, I don't think it would be in
> > violation of the rule. Another example might be CW Skimmer in "BLIND
> > mode" (not sure what the CQWW position on that actually is).
> >
> > Personally, I don't think that querying the RBN to see where you're
> > being heard constitutes "QSO alerting assistance"... JMHO...
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > ~iain / N6ML
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 4:19 PM, <w5ov@w5ov.com> wrote:
> >> There are two parts to the CQWW rules concerning single operator that
> >> make
> >> this entirely clear and without exception:
> >>
> >> The first:
> >> A. Single Operator Categories
> >> 1. Single Operator: QSO alerting assistance of any kind is prohibited
> >> (see
> >> VIII.2).
> >>
> >> Second: Definitions:
> >>
> >> VIII.2. QSO alerting assistance: The use of any technology or other
> >> source
> >> that provides call sign or multiplier identification along with
> >> frequency
> >> information to the operator. It includes, but is not limited to, use of
> >> DX
> >> cluster, packet, local or remote call sign and frequency decoding
> >> technology (e.g., CW Skimmer or Reverse Beacon Network), or operating
> >> arrangements involving other individuals.
> >>
> >> So, as I read it, it says specifically that Single Ops may not use RBN
> >> since RBN is part of the definition of assistance. It has nothing to do
> >> with remote receivers.
> >>
> >> The rules are published here:
> >>
> >> http://www.cqww.com/rules.htm
> >>
> >> 73,
> >>
> >> Bob W5OV
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> "BTW CQ WW rules clearly disallow RBN for Single Operators with no any
> >> Exception"
> >>> Actually it doesn't. The rules state that this technology cannot be
> >> used
> >>> to
> >>> decode callsign and frequency information or multiplier information.
> >>> Since
> >>> you know your callsign, transmit frequency, and whether you need
> >> yourself
> >>> for a mult before looking for a signal report on RBN, there is actually
> >> no
> >>> violation of the rules on the surface from my read.
> >>> You could argue it's the use of a remote receiver. However if that is
> >> the
> >>> case than all RBN use would be prohibited for all users regardless of
> >>> class
> >>> except extreme.
> >>> My interpretation of the rules only but read them yourself and see if
> >> you
> >>> disagree.
> >>> 73
> >>> Ed N1UR
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >>> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> CQ-Contest mailing list
> >> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> CQ-Contest mailing list
> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest****
>
> ****
>
> ** **
>
_______________________________________________
CQ-Contest mailing list
CQ-Contest@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
|