Juan,
With all my respect, to accuse W3LPL in unfair filtering of RBN spots is
the same as accusing some manual spotter (me for example) that he is
spotting EA9 but do not spot EA8. I spot I what I consider to be useful
for my friends DXers, what I think would be interesting to them. If I
did it automatically rather then manually, I would do the same as Frank
in order not to pollute DX cluster.
Regarding the influence of manual spots, let us wait what Pete N4ZR will
find out. All the contesters that I know are sure using RBN and/or
clusters that have RBN feed along with manual spots.
73, Igor UA9CDC
01.03.2017 6:49, Juan Hidalgo EA8RM пишет:
Hi guys !!
I NEVER said that RBN banned EA8!! i know how it works and works great.
(someone change the discussion titled)
to VE9AA:
I told that few stations are SPOTTED to CLUSTER and other NOT (from RBN),
and if they are in the same Country/zone/continent it is unfair. just that,
I use RBN and specially to check conditions to call dx. FB tool.
to W0MU:
i´m agree with you in your sentence "There is nothing stopping someone else
from creating a tool that does something else is there?" but if in the
same competition you SPOT West/AFRICA and not East/AFRICA this is unfair in
a competition between stations in the same continent. Its the same if you
create a system than in NAQP just spot W1 stations and not W3 stations,
Right ? That's what I'm talking about.
to W3LPL:
Many thanks Franz, i really respect you as a reference in contesting from
many years ago. As i learn the system automatically spot wanted dxcc all
over the world, ok´, during ARRL and CQWW it is stopped, right, but there
are many more contest, for example to qualifying to WRTC (CQ WW WPX CW,IARU
HF Championship, Russian DX Contest, WAE DX CW, All Asian DX CW, EUHFC,
WAG, IARU R1 FD CW).
In all these contest it is a continent competition, if some stations are
automatically spotted and other no, there it is something wrong. If i spot
3 times to a friend, he can be DQed for self-spotting,if an automatic
system SPOT (cluster, not RBN) spot me 20 times in a 24hours contest...it
is also self-spotting or we can called as automatically CQoIP? (im talking
about CLUSTER SPOTS not RBN).
Well, if EA9 have 24 spots (cluster) on 24 hours contest and EA8 have 0
spots (cluster) from the same spotter, and every spot brings about 20
QSOS/spot, so EA9 will have 480 QSOs and EA8 will have 0 QSOs coming from
spots, that's made a big difference in a contest and it is made by an
automatic system who it is helping to just one competitor and not to all
competitors in the same level. This happened in all continents during 2015
and 2016 while qualification to WRTC, not only in AF. Im not against W3LPL
system, it is wonderful DXing tool but contesting it is another history,
and there are more contest than CQWW and ARRL.
My regards to you Franz, and your effort to improve the world of hamradio,
I do not try to attack or to be against the system, I have only proved that
it is not fair with all competitors in the same way/level, regardless of
which continent they are, this happens in all continents and can give a
much superior advantage over each other and can detract from the game. I'm
sure it can be improved to make it better.
to ALL:
Lets to think about...if a friend spot me 3 or 4 times we consider that it
is unfair, what about 10, 15 or 24 spots automatically in just a contest?
Some differences:
.- RBN announce everyone/everywhere.
.- LPL system spots just few selected stations during all the test. (not
all the stations in a random way)
I checked CW SPOTS during 2016 contest season from competitors in the same
Continent, spotted by LPL system. (Info by DXsummit)
EA9: 158 Spots
3V8: 146 Spots
5H3: 83 spots
D4: 57 spots
CN: 39 Spots
CT3: 11 spots
ZS: 6 Spots
EA8: 0 Spots
ED8X,EF8R,EF8U: 0 Spots
It is this compete fairly ??? I don't think so.
Many thanks for read it. I dont want start a WAR i just want to make you
think about "automatic self-spotting machines" and cheerleaders.
73 de Juan
EA8RM / EF8R
EF8U Manager.
2017-03-01 0:12 GMT+00:00 Matt IZ3EYZ - Matteo Marzilli <iz3eyz@virgilio.it>
:
Frank,
what EA8RM is trying to explain you is about your auto-forwarding/spotting
service to the classic dx cluster system once a rare/semi-rare dxcc/station
callsign (flagged in your database) is spotted over RBN network by a US
site.
His point is that your service is basically nothing else but a
cheerleading machine. And actually it is even if you don't intend to do so.
So he's complaining the fact that from EA8 not only he has to compete
against other rarer AF stations that attract more callers as per nature but
that he needs to face the unfair advantage provided by your feature as well.
It's a known fact that a classic dx cluster spot nowadays still
attracts/generates much more traffic/pileup compared to a RBN spot. We see
such a boost even from Italy.
It's also true that you stopped doing so in CQWW/ARRL but there are other
major contests like WPX, IARU, WAEDC, RDXC, etc and in these contests your
feature is on and it's pretty annoying to say the least.
FYI I can tell you here on the European side we see the same effect
reported by EA8RM.
On one side we have the "W3LPL group" which includes the semi-rare
European countries (ie. LX, E7, CU, T7, etc, just to name a few) but even
common countries on specific bands that are relevant for US (ie. ES/YL/CT
on 160, etc) while on the other we find I, F, G, DL, EA, 9A, etc.
The picture is that semi-rare EU stations/countries in your database get
an instant pileup everytime they change QRG/band (and they already have
some advantage as per nature), all others have to wait some humans to spot
them if that ever happens.
It would be wise if you turn your feature off at least in all major
contests, not just CQWW/ARRL (the world doesn't end there).
AFAIK this is something I already asked you several years ago privately by
email.
Regards.
Matt
-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com] Per conto di
donovanf@starpower.net
Inviato: martedì 28 febbraio 2017 20:10
A: cq-contest@contesting.com
Oggetto: Re: [CQ-Contest] Ea8's banned from RBN? Hmmm
Juan,
With all respect for your excellent contest results over many years, the
issue you're describing SIMPLY DOES NOT EXIST in the CQ WW and ARRL CW DX
contests because the W3LPL automated CW and RTTY DX spotter HAS ALWAYS BEEN
TURNED OFF during both of those DX contests!
Perhaps your complaint is about the Reverse Beacon Network, If it is, I
don't understand your complaint...
73
Frank
W3LPL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Hidalgo EA8RM" <ea8cac@gmail.com>
Cc: cq-contest@contesting.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 2:52:25 PM
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Ea8's banned from RBN? Hmmm
Hello Mike:
What happens if LPL system spot all NA stations and not V31MU when you're
there???
Will be you happy with that ?
Or imagine that the system don't spot PR stations (common dxcc) and just
spot you every 10 min (uncommon dxcc( , both in NA. it's that's fair ?
That what I mean Mike
It looks CQoIP !!
73 de EA8RM
Enviado desde mi iPhone
El 28 feb 2017, a las 14:03, W0MU Mike Fatchett <w0mu@w0mu.com>
escribió:
LPL has created a tool that does something different. It is what it is.
When that system first came about many Cluster owners decided to ignore
those spots until the system was refined better. EA8's are spotted just
fine. LPL does not sponsor and run contests. It is just one tool that
appears to be created for DXers.
There is nothing stopping someone else from creating a tool that does
something else is there?
The LPL system is dumped into the regular cluster system so what exactly
is the problem? There is no secret gateway to LPL spots that only certain
contesters use etc. Smart folks will connect to many different clusters to
make sure they get the spot as soon as possible to avoid packet pileups.
There are plenty of tools out there to be used. Pick the ones that work
for you. Not being spotting on LPL's system is a non issue.
W0MU
On 2/28/2017 7:07 AM, Eric M. Guzman, P.E. wrote:
Mike, please allow me to jump in.
I think Juan RM is not referring in general to RBN network. It looks
like W3LPL (at least) has some kind of RBN to "Normal Cluster" gateway in
which RBN spots that meets certain criteria, are forwarded to "Normal
Clusters". Apparently the criteria is rareness.
So Juan point is, during a contest, he is competing with another AF
station. He finds unfair that W3LPL keeps forwarding his rare AF competitor
RBN spots to normal clusters while not forwarding his spotd because he is
not rare enough.
I think Juan has a valid point if it is tbe way he describes.
73 Eric G. NP3A
On February 28, 2017 2:19:51 AM "Mike Smith VE9AA" <ve9aa@nbnet.nb.ca>
wrote:
N1EN says".Keep in mind EA8's aren't banned from RBN.."
EA8RM says (in part)". The EA8s are banned from the system I don't
know why,
but it is very easy to
check.."
From Mike VE9AA:
Juan,
I am not sure where you got your information from, and I am not an
authority
on the RBN by any means, but I find that statement quite odd indeed !
You can check this out yourself and prove that it's just not true my
friend.
(I did a search myself of EA8's and see 100 CW and RTTY spots from
several
EA8's just this afternoon in the past couple hours alone.
Go to some band that is open. (20m in the daytime, 40m in the evening).
Pick a clear frequency.
Use a good antenna and normal power and call CQ EA8RM TEST 4 or 5
times.
(all at the same speed)
Repeat a couple times on the same frequency just to be sure.
Go to: http://www.reversebeacon.net/srch.php
Type in EA8RM. Hit enter.
I am sure the page will be full from all over EU or NA (or both,
depending
on your power, antenna, prop,e tc).
Try it.
GL !
CU in the next contest.
Mike VE9AA
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