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Re: [TenTec] TenTec Digest, Vol 156, Issue 4

To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] TenTec Digest, Vol 156, Issue 4
From: Barry N1EU <barry.n1eu@gmail.com>
Reply-to: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 12:54:55 -0500
List-post: <tentec@contesting.com">mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
The link I posted explains that there's 165msec latency for all bandwidths
<= 400Hz and latency improves as you progressively get wider than 400Hz

Barry N1EU

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 12:45 PM, rick@dj0ip.de <Rick@dj0ip.de> wrote:

> And try 100 Hz which is where I run in CW contests.
>
> 73 - Rick DJ0IP
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl
> Moreschi
> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 4:17 PM
> To: tentec
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] TenTec Digest, Vol 156, Issue 4
>
> There's a big difference between 600 and 400.  The steep skirts add a lot
> of
> latency.  Try 600 or 800.
>
> Carl Moreschi N4PY
> 58 Hogwood Rd
> Louisburg, NC 27549
> www.n4py.com
>
> On 12/8/2015 10:14 AM, Barry N1EU wrote:
> > 400Hz in all cases was the receive bandwidth setting.
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 10:08 AM, Carl Moreschi <n4py3@earthlink.net
> > <mailto:n4py3@earthlink.net>> wrote:
> >
> >     That's a function of the receive filter used.  The narrower the
> >     filter, the more latency.  What receive filter were you using?
> >
> >     Carl Moreschi N4PY
> >     58 Hogwood Rd
> >     Louisburg, NC 27549
> >     www.n4py.com <http://www.n4py.com>
> >
> >     On 12/8/2015 8:41 AM, Barry N1EU wrote:
> >
> >         I just measured 170msec latency on the 6500 in cw receive.  It's
> >         a lot (too
> >         much for serious contesting IMHO) but it's not 350msec.
> >
> >         My methodology was to transmit a single dit using another rig
> >         and used a
> >         microphone/soundcard to record the tx sidetone of rig 1 and then
> the
> >         received dit on rig 2.
> >
> >         For comparison, my Orion II measured 45msec and my ANAN-100D SDR
> >         70msec for
> >         cw rx latency.
> >
> >         73, Barry N1EU
> >
> >         On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 8:23 AM, Barry N1EU<barry.n1eu@gmail.com
> >         <mailto:barry.n1eu@gmail.com>>  wrote:
> >
> >             I will personally measure the latency of the Flex 6500 and
> >             get back to
> >             you.  I'm not believing 350msec at this point.
> >
> >             73, Barry N1EU
> >
> >             On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 7:59 AM, rick@dj0ip.de
> >             <mailto:rick@dj0ip.de><Rick@dj0ip.de
> >             <mailto:Rick@dj0ip.de>>  wrote:
> >
> >                 Sorry Barry, latency measured on the Anan does not
> >                 necessarily apply to
> >                 the
> >                 FLEX 6000.
> >
> >                 Less than a year ago it was 350mS on the 6xxx, as
> >                 measured by Rob
> >                 Sherwood.
> >
> >                 We've had this discussion before and Rob jumped in and
> >                 confirmed the 350
> >                 number.
> >                 I'm not sure which reflector it was on.  Might have been
> >                 here, might have
> >                 been on the Eagle or OM7 reflector.
> >
> >                 As I said, it may have changed but not long ago it was
> >                 at 350.
> >                 Until someone steps up and states that (s)he has
> >                 measured it and found it
> >                 better, that's the number I'm sticking with for the Flex
> >                 6xxx radios.
> >
> >                 FB on the Anon latency numbers.
> >
> >                 At 25mS you can still hear in between dits at 40 wpm but
> >                 just barely.
> >                 When you go above that, you no longer hear between dits.
> >
> >                 After about 40 or 50ms latency, you (or rather I and a
> >                 few friends) can no
> >                 longer transmit clean CW by listening to the real time
> >                 signal.  In that
> >                 case
> >                 we have to mute the radio and listen to the sidetone of
> >                 the keyer because
> >                 the delay is annoying and confuses the OP.
> >
> >                 Delay is still an issue but it has gotten a lot better.
> >
> >                 73 - Rick, DJ0IP
> >                 (Nr. Frankfurt, Germany)
> >
> >
> >
> >                 -----Original Message-----
> >                 From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com
> >                 <mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com>] On Behalf Of
> Barry
> >                 N1EU
> >                 Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 1:49 PM
> >                 To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
> >                 Subject: Re: [TenTec] TenTec Digest, Vol 156, Issue 4
> >
> >                 Ha, I love a good tussle  ;-)
> >
> >                 I measured it on an ANAN-100D about a year ago.  I've
> >                 seen numbers for the
> >                 Flex 6K that are similar.  Latency of about 100-150msec
> >                 for cw receive and
> >                 ssb receive and transmit.  CW transmit latency in the
> >                 ANAN and Flex is
> >                 very
> >                 low (on the order of tens of msec) because they both
> >                 optimize it in the
> >                 FPGA.
> >
> >                 73, Barry N1EU
> >
> >                 On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 5:45 AM, rick@dj0ip.de
> >                 <mailto:rick@dj0ip.de><Rick@dj0ip.de
> >                 <mailto:Rick@dj0ip.de>>  wrote:
> >
> >                     Yes, it used to be much worse.
> >                     It is now 350 mS unless there has been some VERY
> >                     recent change.
> >
> >                     Barry, if you say it's better, please specify who
> >                     measured it and
> >                     approximately when.
> >                     Otherwise I strongly disagree.
> >
> >                     I am quoting recent measurements by Rob Sherwood.
> >                     Somewhere buried in 10,000 emails I have a recent
> >                     email from Rob
> >                     confirming this.
> >                     It was while running one of the big contests earlier
> >                     this year.
> >
> >                     I'm not talking about old 5000 rigs, I mean the new
> >                     flagship line, 6xxx.
> >
> >                     73 - Rick, DJ0IP
> >                     (Nr. Frankfurt, Germany)
> >
> >
> >
> >                     -----Original Message-----
> >                     From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com
> >                     <mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com>] On Behalf Of
> >                     Barry
> >                     N1EU
> >                     Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 11:29 AM
> >                     To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
> >                     Subject: Re: [TenTec] TenTec Digest, Vol 156,
> > Issue 4
> >
> >                     Rick, the latency on the latest SDR offerings has
> >                     come WAY down,
> >                     especially on the Flex 6000 series.  They ARE
> >                     contest capable.
> >
> >                     I agree on the knobs.  I applaud the Flex Maestro
> >                     interface panel - I
> >                     think it's a harbinger of products to come in the
> >                     future, where many
> >                     vendors can offer various front panels that can be
> >                     interfaced to many
> >                     different SDR types.  Or someone could write the
> >                     code to use an Orion
> >                     front panel to control an SDR, etc.
> >
> >                     For me, the draw of the direct sampling SDR radios
> >                     (ANAN, Flex 6K) is
> >                     that their receivers simply sound better than the
> >                     best superhet/dsp i.f.
> >
> >                 radios.
> >
> >
> >                     With the introduction of the not-overly-impressive
> >                     IC-7300, perhaps
> >                     we'll be seeing several direct sampling (DDC/DUC)
> >                     bundled in a fully
> >                     knobbed self-contained box in the next 1-3 years.
> >
> >                     73, Barry N1EU
> >
> >                     On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 7:24 AM, rick@dj0ip.de
> >                     <mailto:rick@dj0ip.de><Rick@dj0ip.de
> >                     <mailto:Rick@dj0ip.de>>  wrote:
> >
> >                         EXCEPT . . .  for latency and lack of affordable
> >                         knobs.
> >
> >                         Last reviews I saw still had turnaround latency
> >                         between TX and RX at
> >                         350 mS.
> >                         If both ops are running SDR, and trying to run
> >                         full QSK, that's 0.7
> >                         seconds.
> >                         It's gonna sound like "Chop Phooey" on the air!
> >
> >                         The set of knobs (Maestro) for the lowest cost
> >                         $2000 Flex Radio (in
> >                         the class that interests most of us) is $1200 or
> >                         so.  OR...the big
> >                         single knob from Flex will set you back $200 if
> >                         you are willing to
> >                         wait long enough to get one.
> >
> >                         A decent 3rd party set of knobs, such as the
> >                         Wood Box Radio T-MATE-2
> >                         probably has enough knobs for most of us, but it
> >                         will set you back
> >                         $300 AND Flex software won't support it.  You
> >                         need a 3rd party
> >                         software (i.e. N4PY Radio Control Software) to
> >                         use it with your Flex.
> >                         Get it all set up and working with your WIN7
> >                         computer, then upgrade
> >                         to
> >
> >                     WIN10 and watch the "real"
> >
> >                         fun begin.
> >
> >                         Other than that, there's not much wrong with the
> >                         current crop of SDR
> >                         radios...
> >
> >                         73 - Rick, DJ0IP
> >                         (Nr. Frankfurt, Germany)
> >
> >
> >                         -----Original Message-----
> >                         From: TenTec
> >                         [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com
> >                         <mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com>] On
> >                         Behalf Of Kim
> >                         Elmore
> >                         Sent: Monday, December 07, 2015 2:40 AM
> >
> >                         There's absolutely nothing wrong with SDR; I
> >                         don't fully understand
> >                         why so many people complain about it
> >
> >
> >                         -------
> >
> >                         _______________________________________________
> >                         TenTec mailing list
> >                         TenTec@contesting.com
> <mailto:TenTec@contesting.com>
> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
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