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Re: [TenTec] TenTec Digest, Vol 229, Issue 8

To: Ten-Tec List <tentec@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] TenTec Digest, Vol 229, Issue 8
From: Jim Goudie <jagoudie@comcast.net>
Reply-to: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 17:55:45 -0500
List-post: <mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
Thanks, Jim…

I appreciate all the clues and help.  As I start to dig in some more, all the 
background received here  helps me pay attention… and hopefully “see” what I 
need to see.

Thanks!
Jim  AF3Z

Jim Goudie   —  jagoudie@comcast.net
610 Kraybill Church Rd
Mount Joy, PA 17552

> On Jan 28, 2022, at 2:53 PM, Cubbie <jstanisi@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jim, not sure I can help troubleshoot your current problem but,
> 
> I had some trouble with the PLL board on my OMNI VI + which turned
> 
> out to be a solder bridge from the factory. Only way I found it was to
> 
> make extension cables because I had to use a "RF sniffer" to find the
> 
> noise while the radio was on.  I used these:
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/female-jumper-Dupont-Arduino-Breadboard/dp/B01FDD3LJA
> 
> and epoxied the black connectors together on both ends. You need two 3 wire 
> ones
> 
> and one 2 wire one. Good luck.....Jim WGØD
> 
> On 1/28/2022 11:00 AM, tentec-request@contesting.com wrote:
>> Send TenTec mailing list submissions to
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>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>    1. Omni VI opt 3.... PLL problem (Jim Goudie)
>>    2. Omni VI opt 3.... PLL problem (Peter Bertini)
>>    3. Re: Omni VI opt 3.... PLL problem (Jim Goudie)
>>    4. Re: Omni VI opt 3.... PLL problem (gerd Groos)
>>    5. Re: Omni VI opt 3.... PLL problem (Jim Goudie)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 20:05:35 -0500
>> From: Jim Goudie <jagoudie@comcast.net>
>> To: Ten-Tec List <tentec@contesting.com>
>> Subject: [TenTec] Omni VI opt 3.... PLL problem
>> Message-ID: <B8A77BA3-9BB2-4567-8412-2AAD8B5CAA1F@comcast.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> [ I sent this a day ago?.  and it never appeared, so trying again ;-). ]
>> 
>> I have an option 3 Omni VI that has developed a gargley warbley wobbly 
>> intermittent sound heard on Tx and RX, and I also hear it on the 5-5.5mhz 
>> PLL signal.  At times, that ?noise? seems to be affected by mechanical bumps 
>> and repositioning the chassis.   So, I opened things up?. ?exercised 
>> connectors,? cleaned up and re-soldered areas on the PLL board that looked 
>> suspicious, and didn?t find much else.  Before going deeper, I decided to 
>> put it back together and see if my initial work had solved the problem.
>> 
>> I was very encouraged for a while.  I was even tweaking the alignment before 
>> planning to put it back in the case.   But then?. it warbled again.  It 
>> seems to be making the noise less often so far, but ...
>> 
>> Any advice/experience with what might be wrong or how to proceed?  There?s 
>> no direct access to the 5 mhz PLL board during normal operation?  So? I?m 
>> open to suggestions?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Jim  AF3Z
>> 
>> Jim Goudie   ?  jagoudie@comcast.net
>> 610 Kraybill Church Rd
>> Mount Joy, PA 17552
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 22:32:22 -0500
>> From: Peter Bertini <radioconnection@gmail.com>
>> To: tentec@contesting.com
>> Subject: [TenTec] Omni VI opt 3.... PLL problem
>> Message-ID:
>>      <CA+uDY2T6UwvdWZVJO2H-NdqFQoEg0kK-x0Yi_isTLRtXp9e3qQ@mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>> 
>> First, does it only on a few select bands, or on all bands?  If one or two
>> bands only chances are it is a hetrodyne crystal that has aged and is going
>> out of lock.  Some of those crystals are used one more than one band.  One
>> clue is that the rig will work well when cold, and then act up when the
>> pizza oven that encloses those PLL boards gets hot.  TenTec provided no
>> airflow, and there are two pass regulator transistors on the aluminum lid
>> that adds to the heating problem.  There is a procedure for setting the
>> lock range for each crystal that requires using a good scope to monitor a
>> point on the uP control board.  I've fought that problem on three or four
>> Omni VI rigs I own. Pete
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2022 23:28:40 -0500
>> From: Jim Goudie <jagoudie@comcast.net>
>> To: Ten-Tec List <tentec@contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Omni VI opt 3.... PLL problem
>> Message-ID: <6A62D6A7-7512-46B9-9198-ACF425166CCA@comcast.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
>> 
>> Thanks, Pete?
>> 
>> I didn?t check all the bands carefully or systematically.  I heard it on 
>> several.  I?ll go back and be more careful about it.  And yes, it seems to 
>> happen after it has been on for a while?. but not very long; 5 minutes or so?
>> 
>> If it gets too involved, with the crystals and setting the lock range, etc., 
>> I may have to punt.  My experience and my ?bench? may not be up to the 
>> challenge.  We?ll see.
>> 
>> Thanks very much for your input.  I?ll save all the help I get and refer to 
>> it as the project progresses.  Fortunately, I have my old trusty 544, Triton 
>> IV digital, that I bought used in 1982 ;-).  It is enjoying being my #1 
>> radio again? and doing quite well.
>> 
>> 73!
>> Jim  AF3Z
>> 
>> 
>> Jim Goudie   ?  jagoudie@comcast.net
>> 610 Kraybill Church Rd
>> Mount Joy, PA 17552
>> 
>>> On Jan 27, 2022, at 10:32 PM, Peter Bertini <radioconnection@gmail.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> First, does it only on a few select bands, or on all bands?  If one or two
>>> bands only chances are it is a hetrodyne crystal that has aged and is going
>>> out of lock.  Some of those crystals are used one more than one band.  One
>>> clue is that the rig will work well when cold, and then act up when the
>>> pizza oven that encloses those PLL boards gets hot.  TenTec provided no
>>> airflow, and there are two pass regulator transistors on the aluminum lid
>>> that adds to the heating problem.  There is a procedure for setting the
>>> lock range for each crystal that requires using a good scope to monitor a
>>> point on the uP control board.  I've fought that problem on three or four
>>> Omni VI rigs I own. Pete
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TenTec mailing list
>>> TenTec@contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 10:22:15 +0100
>> From: gerd Groos <df9ts.cw@gmail.com>
>> To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Omni VI opt 3.... PLL problem
>> Message-ID: <235352E8-B19E-4CDD-975D-AA9454537185@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
>> 
>> Pete,
>> 
>> could you share the procedure you mentioned? I have a OMNI VI that I love. 
>> PLL board has the two PLL circuits out of sync, I have no continous 
>> frequency output from VFO anymore.
>> Checked and tried a lot, hardware seems ok, just need to know how to do the 
>> adjustments.
>> 
>> BR
>> 
>> Gerd DF9TS
>> 
>>> On 28. Jan 2022, at 05:28, Jim Goudie <jagoudie@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks, Pete?
>>> 
>>> I didn?t check all the bands carefully or systematically.  I heard it on 
>>> several.  I?ll go back and be more careful about it.  And yes, it seems to 
>>> happen after it has been on for a while?. but not very long; 5 minutes or 
>>> so?
>>> 
>>> If it gets too involved, with the crystals and setting the lock range, 
>>> etc., I may have to punt.  My experience and my ?bench? may not be up to 
>>> the challenge.  We?ll see.
>>> 
>>> Thanks very much for your input.  I?ll save all the help I get and refer to 
>>> it as the project progresses.  Fortunately, I have my old trusty 544, 
>>> Triton IV digital, that I bought used in 1982 ;-).  It is enjoying being my 
>>> #1 radio again? and doing quite well.
>>> 
>>> 73!
>>> Jim  AF3Z
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Jim Goudie   ?  jagoudie@comcast.net
>>> 610 Kraybill Church Rd
>>> Mount Joy, PA 17552
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 27, 2022, at 10:32 PM, Peter Bertini <radioconnection@gmail.com> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> First, does it only on a few select bands, or on all bands?  If one or two
>>>> bands only chances are it is a hetrodyne crystal that has aged and is going
>>>> out of lock.  Some of those crystals are used one more than one band.  One
>>>> clue is that the rig will work well when cold, and then act up when the
>>>> pizza oven that encloses those PLL boards gets hot.  TenTec provided no
>>>> airflow, and there are two pass regulator transistors on the aluminum lid
>>>> that adds to the heating problem.  There is a procedure for setting the
>>>> lock range for each crystal that requires using a good scope to monitor a
>>>> point on the uP control board.  I've fought that problem on three or four
>>>> Omni VI rigs I own. Pete
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TenTec mailing list
>>>> TenTec@contesting.com
>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TenTec mailing list
>>> TenTec@contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 10:23:49 -0500
>> From: Jim Goudie <jagoudie@comcast.net>
>> To: Ten-Tec List <tentec@contesting.com>
>> Subject: Re: [TenTec] Omni VI opt 3.... PLL problem
>> Message-ID: <82B248A8-F193-4BBC-98B8-6269A332159C@comcast.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8
>> 
>> Yes, Pete.   I?d appreciate receiving that procedure as well.  It makes a 
>> lot of sense? and I feel more encouraged to give it a try!  My problem 
>> definitely only shows up after the rig warms up?
>> 
>> Thanks again!
>> Jim  AF3Z
>> 
>> Jim Goudie   ?  jagoudie@comcast.net
>> 610 Kraybill Church Rd
>> Mount Joy, PA 17552
>> 
>>> On Jan 28, 2022, at 4:22 AM, gerd Groos <df9ts.cw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Pete,
>>> 
>>> could you share the procedure you mentioned? I have a OMNI VI that I love. 
>>> PLL board has the two PLL circuits out of sync, I have no continous 
>>> frequency output from VFO anymore.
>>> Checked and tried a lot, hardware seems ok, just need to know how to do the 
>>> adjustments.
>>> 
>>> BR
>>> 
>>> Gerd DF9TS
>>> 
>>>> On 28. Jan 2022, at 05:28, Jim Goudie <jagoudie@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks, Pete?
>>>> 
>>>> I didn?t check all the bands carefully or systematically.  I heard it on 
>>>> several.  I?ll go back and be more careful about it.  And yes, it seems to 
>>>> happen after it has been on for a while?. but not very long; 5 minutes or 
>>>> so?
>>>> 
>>>> If it gets too involved, with the crystals and setting the lock range, 
>>>> etc., I may have to punt.  My experience and my ?bench? may not be up to 
>>>> the challenge.  We?ll see.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks very much for your input.  I?ll save all the help I get and refer 
>>>> to it as the project progresses.  Fortunately, I have my old trusty 544, 
>>>> Triton IV digital, that I bought used in 1982 ;-).  It is enjoying being 
>>>> my #1 radio again? and doing quite well.
>>>> 
>>>> 73!
>>>> Jim  AF3Z
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Jim Goudie   ?  jagoudie@comcast.net
>>>> 610 Kraybill Church Rd
>>>> Mount Joy, PA 17552
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 27, 2022, at 10:32 PM, Peter Bertini <radioconnection@gmail.com> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> First, does it only on a few select bands, or on all bands?  If one or two
>>>>> bands only chances are it is a hetrodyne crystal that has aged and is 
>>>>> going
>>>>> out of lock.  Some of those crystals are used one more than one band.  One
>>>>> clue is that the rig will work well when cold, and then act up when the
>>>>> pizza oven that encloses those PLL boards gets hot.  TenTec provided no
>>>>> airflow, and there are two pass regulator transistors on the aluminum lid
>>>>> that adds to the heating problem.  There is a procedure for setting the
>>>>> lock range for each crystal that requires using a good scope to monitor a
>>>>> point on the uP control board.  I've fought that problem on three or four
>>>>> Omni VI rigs I own. Pete
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> TenTec mailing list
>>>>> TenTec@contesting.com
>>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> TenTec mailing list
>>>> TenTec@contesting.com
>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TenTec mailing list
>>> TenTec@contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TenTec mailing list
>> TenTec@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> End of TenTec Digest, Vol 229, Issue 8
>> **************************************
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