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Re: [TowerTalk] C31-XR versus KT36XA

To: bryanr@bometals.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] C31-XR versus KT36XA
From: "Jim White, K4OJ" <k4oj@tampabay.rr.com>
Reply-to: k4oj@tampabay.rr.com
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 11:59:23 -0400
List-post: <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Brain - under the heading of - for what it is worth...

That is me on that tower - the lower guy on the tower, and I used that antenna for about a decade at the station at my parents home in Homestead, FL until Hurricane Andrew took it down.

In my opinion the antenna performed very well and despite those who told me it was a dog on 15 meters I came in second twice in the CQ WW CW as a 21 MHz monoband entrant - losing once to a ham in Virginia who out-Europeaned me (in Florida) and the other time to a W5 who out JA'd me...

All that time I never felt the antenna was a disappointment - on the contrary it changed my opinion on tribanders to some extent. It was not the traditional "suckermaster" which presented a near 50 ohm low SWR antenna to the rig on three bands and not much more. It did have pattern AND DID BUST PILEUPS.

The biggest downside of the KLM tribanders is a function of their complexity. There were so many little pieces that it was that antithesis of the KISS (keep it simple stupid) rule and as I now gather from your posting is was so much so we had it put together wrong!

Even built wrong I could not think of another tribander on the market AT THAT TIME I would have rather been using. Today, the multiple monobanders on a common boom triband antennas like the Force 12 antennas are to me more likely to have less problems and fewer assembly errors than the KT's.

73,

Jim, K4OJ

203 11 59




Bryan Rambo wrote:
Sorry for the delay Jim, I've been on vacation.

The KT-34XA is constructed so that the coaxial capacitor sections are
oriented to the front on some elements and to the rear on the other
elements.  Going from the reflector to the last director, they should be
oriented rear-front-rear-front-rear.  The XA pictured in the Antenna Book
article has all the capacitor sections to the front.

I pointed that out just to show how easy it is to make a mistake when
building an XA.  I just wondered if the same mistake might have been made on
the XA used in Steve's and Ward's tribander report.  I wonder if they have
photos?  I also wondered if they ever confirmed whether or not the XA used
in the report was one of those that had the defective tubing.

73 - Bryan W4WMT

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim White, K4OJ [mailto:k4oj@tampabay.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 9:37 AM
To: bryanr@bometals.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] C31-XR versus KT36XA


I am looking st the picture - how are those backwards?


Thanks,

Jim

Bryan Rambo wrote:

Ward, thanks for your careful explanation below.  And again, I didn't mean
to imply that you had botched data in the tribander report.  Sorry for not
being more precise with my words :-(

I wonder if it was ever confirmed that the KT34-XA used in the report was
indeed one of the units with defective tubing?  The reason I ask is that

it


is very easy to put one of those antennas together wrong.  As evidence of
that, look in the ARRL Antenna Book (editions 17,18,19) in chapter 22 and
take a gander at the KT34-XA depicted there.  Three of the elements are
mounted backward on the boom!!!

73 - Bryan W4WMT

-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com]On Behalf Of Ward Silver
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 11:50 PM
To: Towertalk Reflector
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] C31-XR versus KT36XA


A slight clarification on the exact problem with the KT34XA...


When we started presenting data, as Steve said, several other XA owners

came


up and said, "Mine acts JUST LIKE THAT and nobody has ever been able to
explain why or fix it!" Other guys (the majority) couldn't repeat the
behavior and had never observed it.  At Dayton in 2000, I was having

dinner


with some DL hams (can't remember exactly who, apologies DL hams) and they
said, "You know, DL2? figured it out."

To make a long and mysterious story short, KLM received and used an
out-of-spec shipment of tubing for the 15-meter capacitor sections.  The
capacitance is formed by the OD of the inner tube and the ID of the outer
tube.  The outer tube had the right OD, but the wrong wall thickness (too
thick) and so the ID was too small and the resulting capacitance too large
and the resulting frequency of minimum SWR too low. (Follow me through

that


sentence?)

The specified wall thickness for the outer tube was not the common value

for


tubing of that OD. Somebody either ordered or shipped the common

(too-thick)


tubing and KLM's QC didn't catch it.  The difference wasn't enough to
prevent the plastic end caps from going in - it was just a few thousandths
of an inch too thick - so the problem went unsolved for years.

If you have an XA that tunes up too low on 15-meters, contact M2 because
they have a retrofit kit that will fix it up.  The suspect antennas seemed
to also have blue end caps on the tuning capacitor tubing, but it's not a
one-to-one relationship.

Most of the credit goes to the DL guys for having the smarts to make the
right measurements and deduce what had happened.  We published the data

and


caused the connection between cause and effect to become known.  And THAT,
my friends, is why publishing your test data is so important.  That is
SCIENCE, even if it is applied science.  As Isaac Asimov said
(approximately), "Breakthroughs in science never start with 'Eureka!'

They


start with 'Hmmm, that's funny...'"

73, Ward N0AX

----- Original Message -----
From: <K7LXC@aol.com>
To: <bryanr@bometals.com>; <towertalk@contesting.com>
Cc: <hwardsil@centurytel.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] C31-XR versus KT36XA




In a message dated 9/14/03 9:36:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
bryanr@bometals.com writes:



I'm glad you brought up the business about Steve & Ward's (otherwise
excellent) tribander report.  It's a real shame that the ONE antenna

that


got botched was the XA.

Actually several other XA owners told us that theirs were identical to the test antenna.

FYI any XA that came out of KLM once they moved to Washington State

was



suspect since they made wholesale aluminum substitutions that created

problems.



They couldn't get the parts from their suppliers because they didn't pay

them



so they shipped anything they had in stock that was close.



It sure would have been interesting to see
how the XA stacks up to the more recent designs

Sure. Get us a KT36XA and we'll be happy to include it in our next

round



of tests.

Cheers,
Steve    K7LXC
TOWER TECH
Champion Radio Products





_______________________________________________


See: http://www.mscomputer.com  for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless
Weather Stations", and lot's more.  Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with

any


questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.

_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
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_______________________________________________

See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless

Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with any questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.

_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk





_______________________________________________

See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with any questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.

_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk



_______________________________________________

See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with any questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.

_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
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