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Re: [TowerTalk] Telex,Telrex,Telerex- etc ?

To: <>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Telex,Telrex,Telerex- etc ?
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 18:08:21 -0500
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Fixing one omission (though I noticed a few in re-reading this):

I meant to say people will see a big 20M Telrex and find it hard to believe 
it's a 20.  It looks more like a 15 or 10.

Another phenomenon, true no doubt of all sorts of antennas, not just 
Telrex -- have two identical antennas, one up high and one low and the one 
low can look huge and the one up high looks normal.  It's hard to believe 
they're the same antenna, even though you know the farther-away one will, 
obviously, look smaller.  Even allowing for that, it doesn't seem right.

And people will see your high 10M beam and think it's a 6M beam.

73 - Rich, KE3Q

----- Original Message ----- 
To: "Joe Barnes" <>; <>; "Bill 
Aycock" <>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Telex,Telrex,Telerex- etc ?

> Okay, well if you're really confused it's worth the time to straighten it 
> out.
> No such thing as "Telerex," that I know of.
> Telrex -- with an R in the middle -- is the old, high-end, antenna 
> company. It was "The Best" in the 50s and 60s, and I suppose into the 70s. 
> Telrex antennas were too expensive for most of us.  They said 90% of their 
> sales were to commercial, government, and military, and 10% to hams.  I've 
> heard other ham manufacturers say similar things.  In any case, they 
> seemed to make no attempt to price their produce "for the masses."  Telrex 
> was out of Asbury Park, New Jersey I think it was.  That's where they had 
> their machine shop for "taper swaging" and all sorts of things they did on 
> their made-to-order antennas.  I don't know that they kept much, if any, 
> inventory in stock, or that any ham dealers carried their products.  They 
> may only sold direct -- all part of their "not for the masses" approach. 
> Telrex also made the "Big Bertha," which was basically the millionaire's 
> antenna support -- a self supporting tubular steel monopole that rotated 
> from ground level -- typically 112' above ground, with a pair of big 
> monobanders on each band, 20, 15, and 10 and a single 40M yagi.  People 
> often put VHF and UHF antennas at the top too.  In those days not nearly 
> as many people had "stacks" as they do now, and even fewer had "rotating 
> stacks."  The Bertha was the "big gun's" antenna support.  Some, like W3TX 
> and WX0B, are making rotating monopoles now and calling them "Big 
> Berthas," but I've heard some purists say, "It isn't a Big Bertha unless 
> it's Telrex."  Other than that, some of the new generation of these poles 
> are a lot taller, 150' high or more, taking them well beyond the earlier 
> Telrex versions.  And, now guys are putting up rotating towers, which to 
> many is the deluxe system of today. With them you can easily go to 200' or 
> more, theoretically, though most hams stay at 200' or less, to avoid FAA 
> lighting requirements -- and the "point of diminishing returns."
> Telex -- no R in the middle -- was a headphone company -- and maybe other 
> things, other audio devices.  Out of Minneapolis I think.  Weren't they 
> bought by 3M?  Anyway, then Telex bought Hy-Gain, creating 
> "Hy-Gain-Telex," or maybe it was Hy-Gain that bought Telex -- and now I 
> guess that combination was bought by MFJ, right?  Hy-Gain has been the 
> maker of their line of ham yagis -- the Long John and other monobanders, 
> but most of what they've sold may be their tribanders, the TH-3, TH-6, 
> TH-7, TH-11 and probably there were/are others.
> I have a lot of Telrex antennas, and a Big Bertha (not up -- I'm WAY 
> behind in my installation plans).  Telrex antennas do have "issues," 
> particularly mechanical.  But, I agree with the commenter who said his has 
> been up since '78 with no problems, works great.  The main "challenge" 
> with having Telrex antennas is also their "strength."  They're "built like 
> a tank," which means you need a huskier tower to hold them on and a 
> huskier rotator to turn them. They're heavier, and I suppose more windload 
> too, compared to ones by other manufacturers of comparable performance. 
> People will look at a big Telrex beam and think it's a 15M or 10M beam 
> because of the very little element sag, compared to some others.  Etc.
> The main failure points, according to my observation, on Telrex antennas 
> is the "through-the-boom" element mounting.  Telrex drilled holes through 
> the boom, the size of the middle portion of the element, and slipped the 
> element through the hole.  It eliminates boom-to-element plates.  It makes 
> a neat, tidy, appearance.  The problems:  When you try to take one of 
> these apart, take it down and take it apart, it's often very difficult to 
> get that tubing out of the boom, which you want to do to transport it to a 
> new location. Worse, over time, with the wind working on the elements and 
> boom 24/7, a slight amount of "play" can develop between the element and 
> boom.  Once that first bit of "play" starts, the element starts to really 
> work on that hole and ream it out.  Eventually, you will notice, when you 
> look up at your beam, that one of the elements is "floppy," moving around 
> instead of staying still.  Let it go that way and the boom will split at 
> that point and that end of the antenna will fall to the ground -- bending 
> other antennas below it on the way.  This had happened to a Big Bertha I 
> took down in Leesburg, Virginia (Arthur Godfrey's and "Prince Talal's" old 
> place) -- a boom end or two, with elements, had "shed," bending some 
> elements on antennas below, etc.
> The worst ones are the 40M yagis, in my observation.  I had a pair of 
> 2-element 40M Telrex yagis on a 160' tower.  They hadn't been up more than 
> a year and both looked in perfect condition when put up.  While I had 
> acquired both of them used, they hadn't been up for most of their 
> "lifetimes."  But, each "failed," shed an element along with the tip of 
> the boom, within a week of each other.  Maybe it was an amazing 
> coincidence -- I think probably so -- and maybe it was freak winds.  Those 
> were 60-foot elements and unlike their elements on 20/15/10, their 40M 
> elements tapered to solid aluminum rod for their tips -- anyway, a lot of 
> movement in the wind and a lot of that stress goes to where the element 
> reaches the boom.
> While I've never, myself, had an intact 3-element 40M yagi, most of the 
> ones I've personally seen that have been up a while have had elements fall 
> off. K3ZO's 3-el is an exception.  It's up and intact.  Consequently, I 
> have "the remains of" two 3-element 40s and the remains of a fourth 
> promised to me if I ever go get it.
> The main differences between the 40M Telrexes and the ones for 20/15/10 
> are the dramatic element taper (like more modern designs) that reduces 
> weight and windload -- and the second thing is the hairpin matches on 
> elements, that made it tricky, at least for me and a buddy, to make 
> adjustments to resonant frequency.  Well, I take it back, some of my older 
> Telrex antennas, 3-el ones, have hairpins too, on each element.  The 
> bigger ones don't.  All the 40s do.
> Anyway, the 40s do seem to be more mechanically vulnerable, and they're 
> trickier electrically too.
> Electrically.... Telrex antennas were designed empirically by the "cut and 
> try" method on Telrex's antenna range.  They're effective.  But, the 
> modern generation of computer-assisted design antennas are almost 
> certainly better electrically -- better performance.  Most Telrex antennas 
> (their tribanders were an exception, having separate reflectors) -- so 
> let's say Telrex monobanders -- had evenly-spaced elements.  I don't think 
> any modern generation antennas do this, because it's been found that 
> better performance can be obtained with spacings that are not all the 
> same.
> And, the well-known 8-element 15M Telrex, for instance, would work just as 
> well if it was only 6 elements, on the same boom length, apparently.  The 
> 6-element 20 would be just as good, better according to some people, if it 
> was just 5 elements.  In fact, Telrex had two designs, a 5 and a 6, on the 
> same boom length.  Some people say the 5 was better.  Telrex made a 
> 10-element 10, but some people have designs, modern designs, that are just 
> 7 elements, on roughly that same boom length.
> So, Telrex may have had more elements than needed, for a given performance 
> level, which added to weight and windload.  Still, no doubt it's cool to 
> be able to say you're using a 10-element monobander, when you're on 10. 
> There are still some guys around who have a stack of two of those, maybe 
> more.
> 73 - Rich, KE3Q
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bill Aycock" <>
> To: "Joe Barnes" <>; <>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 3:39 PM
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Telex,Telrex,Telerex- etc ?
> >
> > I'm REALLY confused- The three names above, and maybe more similar ones-
> > Who made what and when and how well?
> > Bill
> >
> > At 03:09 PM 3/2/2005 -0500, Joe Barnes wrote:
> >
> > >Not real sure where tvd got that the Telrex monobanders were not well
> > >built, Im currently using a 6 element 20 meter Telerex that wa
> > >originally installed in 1978 and it still rocks, Im thinkin there are
> > >few other manufactureres that can make this claim.
> > >73, Joe N4JBK
> > >__________
> >
> > Bill Aycock - W4BSG
> > Woodville, Alabama
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > See:  for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless 
> > Weather Stations", and lot's more.  Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with 
> > any questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> See:  for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless 
> Weather Stations", and lot's more.  Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with 
> any questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list

See:  for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless Weather 
Stations", and lot's more.  Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with any questions 
and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.

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