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Re: [TowerTalk] Trapped Tribanders Turned Vertical

To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Trapped Tribanders Turned Vertical
From: K4SAV <RadioIR@charter.net>
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 10:01:27 -0500
List-post: <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
K4SAV wrote:
The higher the antennas are, the less difference in gain there will be 
between mounting vertically and horizontally.

W4TV wrote:
Not true ... the vertical beam will always miss the "ground
gain" and will lag the horizontal antenna by three to six dB.

------------------------
Well, my original statement is not 100% true for all heights, and 
neither is yours.  Here are some EZNEC numbers for a three element Yagi 
turned either vertically of horizontally.

Height ___ Horz Antenna  ______ Vert Antenna ____ Gain Difference
20 ______ 9.6 dBi at 36 deg ___ 4.8 at 17 deg ______ 4.8 dB
30_______11 dBi at 28 deg _____ 5.7 dBi at 15 deg __ 5.3 dB
35 _____ 11.6 dBi at 25 deg ____5.9 dBi at 13 deg __ 5.7 dB
40 _____ 11.9 dBi at 23 deg ___ 6 dBi at 12 deg ____ 5.9 dB
80 _____ 12.7 dBi at 12 deg ___ 8 dBi at 9 deg _____ 4.7 dB
100 ____ 12.9 dBi at 10 deg ___ 8.8 dBi at 8 deg ___ 4.1 dB
120 ____ 12.9 dBi at 8 deg ____ 9.4 at 7 deg _______ 3.5 dB
150 ____ 13 dBi at 7 deg ______ 10.1 dBi at 6 deg __ 2.9 dB
200 ____ 13.2 dBi at 5 deg ____ 10.8 dBi at 5 deg __ 2.4 dB
300 ____ 13.1 dBi at 3 deg ____ 11.6 dBi at 3 deg __ 1.5 dB

When a horizontal antenna is placed very close to the ground, like 35 
feet or less for a 20 meter antenna, the ground loss for the horizontal 
antenna increases dramatically making my original statement not exactly 
accurate.  However, above about 40 feet, the gain difference between a 
horizontal and vertically mounted antenna steadily decreases.

Jerry, K4SAV

Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>>The higher the antennas are, the less difference in gain 
>>there will be between mounting vertically and horizontally. 
>>    
>>
>
>Not true ... the vertical beam will always miss the "ground 
>gain" and will lag the horizontal antenna by three to six dB. 
>Over salt water the vertical beam will have more gain at 
>lower take off angles but its maximum gain will never equal 
>that of the same beam mounted horizontally. 
>
>A good frequency for comparison is 10 meters as the height 
>required for a horizontal antenna to have a take off angle 
>similar to that of the vertical antenna becomes reasonable. 
>A vertical dipole at 55' (center) over perfect ground (salt 
>water) has a peak gain of 4.13 dB at 7 degrees.  A horizontal 
>dipole at 55' has a peak gain of 8.08 dBi at 9 degrees (7.63 
>dBi at 7 degrees).  Move the antennas to 70 feet and the 
>gains are 4.71 dBi for the vertical dipole and 7.92 dBi for 
>the horizontal dipole (at 7 degrees). 
>
>73, 
>
>   ... Joe, W4TV 
>  
>
>
>
>
>  
>

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