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Re: [TowerTalk] STEPPIR QUESTION

To: Jim Brown <jim@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] STEPPIR QUESTION
From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard@karlquist.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:35:48 -0700
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Jim Brown wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:26:33 -0700 (PDT), Rick Karlquist wrote:
> 
>> Also, the waveform on the output of the controller is only a few
>> hundred Hz.  The capacitive reactance is much larger than the resistance
>> at these frequencies.  Microphones have to go to 20 kHz and the impedance
>> is at least 600 ohms, not a few dozen, so that may not be a great analogy.
> 
> You may be right. I haven't looked at the waveform, but a 300 Hz square 
> wave will have harmonics well above 3 kHz. As to the capacitance -- 40pF/ft 
> is typical for the generic sorts of cable that SteppIR is using.  
> 
> On the audio side of things, the relatively low reactance of the large 
> capacitance of a lot of cable can current-starve the live driver, causing 
> distortion peaks above about 10 kHz.  Also, a relatively high value of 
> capacitance as a load can interact with the feedback network around the 
> output stage make it unstable. Deane Jensen published a classic paper on 
> that about 40 years ago, and ever since, audio output stages have 50 ohm 
> resistors in series with each leg to prevent the instability. 
> 
> BTW -- pro audio has not used 600 ohm interfaces for about 50 years. Line 
> drivers (mics and output stages) have output impedances on the order of 100 
> ohms.  Line level outputs are designed to drive input circuits on the order 
> of 10K ohms, and mics are designed to work into at least 5X their nominal 
> output impedance. We describe these as "voltage-matched" systems. 
> 
> Yes, these are low frequency circuits, but things are not always as simple 
> as they look. 
> 
> 73,
> 
> Jim K9YC

Didn't know pro audio was 100 ohms.

Good points, but here is some more evidence:  I have 350 feet of cable
feeding my MonstIR.  Initially, it wouldn't work because the resistance
was too high.  I installed two more runs and tied everything in 
parallel.  This tripled the capacitance and cut the resistance to 1/3
of the original value.  The MonstIR works perfectly now.  I have as
much capacitance as a normal run of 1000 feet.

But actually, the cable is a transmission line, and like all
transmission lines, has both capacitance and inductance.
If you terminate a transmission line with less than 30 ohms,
and the transmission line has a characteristic impedance of more
than 30 ohms, the input impedance will be inductive, not capacitive,
for all line lengths less than a quarter wavelength.  It is a very safe
bet that any cable used will exceed 30 ohms of characteristic
impedance and I think we can agree that 350 feet is less than a quarter 
wavelength for any SteppIR signals, which shouldn't exceed 500 kHz.

Rick N6RK
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