Kevin Normoyle wrote:
> My tower climbing is modest. Most of my experience comes from rock climbing.
>
> In the rock climbing world, there is a lot of information sharing, accidents,
> what works, what doesn't etc.
> There's very little macho posturing, I think because there's it's a sport
> that accepts risk and wants to manage it, not
> brag about it.
well... maybe the bragging takes a slightly different form...
>
> But I find I don't trust the opinions of any hams. Like I can't imagine a
> conversation about the side loading of pelican
> hooks and new standards with a ham. Or the benefits of a webbing wrap for a
> tie off, as opposed to a metal hook. Or how
> a bad clip can cause a torquing action that opens the gate on a biner/hook.
It depends...
>
> I think the reality is that safe standard practices for tower climbing are
> only really just emerging in the last 10
> years or so. (and gear). And people haven't adapted to it widely. As far as I
> can tell. Yet there's all these folks
> lecturing about "the right way" ?? I don't believe they're doing it "the
> right way" ! Maybe they are? (how old is their
> gear though?)
there's differences between standard practice in the rigging world, the
tower world, and the rock climbing world.
Back in the 80s, nobody have a fuzzy rodents behind what you did on a
movie set, for instance.. "We're losing the light, get up there and move
that" A couple spectacular deaths and life changed.
Rock climbing is kind of different.. 60s and 70s, there was a difference
between US and Europe but as time went on, the sport/activity diverged
into sport climbing/top rope vs trad vs big wall climbing. (and I've
probably offended someone here with my multichotomy) Different standards
in different areas. Compare a free solo speed climb up Half Dome vs
some 5.14 top rope..
>
> How many people would feel comfortable with jumping off the tower after
> they're tied off? If not, then that's a problem
> right?
that was the big thing when I was learning to rock climb.. The first
fall, you get caught, and you figure, hey, I can push it. Then, there's
your first leader fall.
(and your first zipper)
> \
> As an example: the ANSI Z359.1.2007 upgraded the requirements for side
> loading on hooks and carabiners. So this tells me
> that if you have gear from before 2007, and you're someone who wants to talk
> about "rules" ..well you're using gear that
> doesn't follow the rules...right?
>
> * Gate face must withstand a load of 3,600 lbs.---up from 220 lbs.
> * Side of gate must withstand a load of 3,600 lbs.---up from 350 lbs.
> * Minor Axis of a snap hook or carabiner, except those with captive
> eyes, must withstand 3,600 lbs.---new to standard
> * Tensile load for the snap hook or carabiner must withstand 5,000
> lbs.---same as old standard
> \
yeah, and when I drag my 70s era climbing gear out at the local pitch..
"whoa.. dude, where did you get that biner? (referring to a classic oval
Liberty biner).. is that a Hexcentric?"
But for low angle 5.6 stuff, I'm not going to die, I'm not doing some A5
pitch with big exposure, who cares... I'm not going to load the ancient
biner beyond it's rating.
But would I advocate this for an employee.... no way.
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