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Re: [TowerTalk] modeling compare: 80M, 2EL vs 4SQ

To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] modeling compare: 80M, 2EL vs 4SQ
From: David Gilbert <xdavid@cis-broadband.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:58:08 -0700
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
There is a lot wrong in that post.

1. HFTA doesn't model vertically polarized antennas, so if the conclusion is to go with a 4-square you aren't going to learn a thing

2. Radials, no matter how extensive, will not do a thing to affect the vertical radiation pattern of a vertically polarized antenna. The conductivity of the land beyond any practical radial field rules the day ... and night. Radials affect efficiency, not pattern.

3. Elevated radials make sense versus using an extensive ground screen over really poor ground, but again ... that only affects efficiency and not pattern, and doing both makes little sense. The elevated radials mostly shield the ground screen from providing any useful benefit unless the ground screen is a lot larger than the area of the elevated radials.

Dave   AB7E



On 3/16/2015 5:32 AM, Ed Sawyer wrote:
Its an interesting thread.  A few comments.

-          Its all about gain.  You don't care about F/B because if you can
consider these antennas, you are going to have beverages.  And if you have
good beverages, you will essentially never listen on your TX antenna again -
except for certain specific circumstances.

-          If you have negatively sloping terrain of ANY kind towards EU,
you need to HFTA model it.  Not NEC antenna model it.  You do NOT have to
have the specific data.  You can create your own ray data to see what the
effect will be.  You do NOT have to have the specific info to understand the
effect of that slope.  Estimate it, and you will see the effect.

-          80M yagis are notoriously difficult to maintain, so personally,
with negative slope to EU, if budget and space are no object, I would do an
elevated 4 square - of 4 - 85 ft towers with the insulated adapter at the 20
foot level.  Do 4 radials under each one and then lay out a full ground
screen (ala K3LR style) in the full square area of concern (essentially
under all area that has a radial on it).  That way you really don't care
what your ground conductivity is.

Ed  N1UR

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